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Should the F line be included

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Was it a deliberate decision not to include the F (Historic Streetcar) line in this article? It's not just for the tourists going to Fisherman's Wharf; it is used by many commuters debarking from the Ferry Building and heading up the Embarcadero or down Market.

Atlant 16:50, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I followed Muni's own guidelines in this case; the F Line is not considered a Metro line, since the Metro designation itself dates from the building of the Market Street tunnel, where the PCCs and other historic streetcars of the F Line cannot go. I debated when writing the article whether or not to include the F line, which is sort of an orphan within the system (it's not a bus, it's not a cable car, it has a letter route designation like the Metro lines but isn't included in the official Muni Metro system map (http://transit.511.org/providers/maps/SF_923200345557.pdf)). I ended up just creating a link to a (nonexistant) F Line page in the hopes that someone would flesh it out. It probably wouldn't hurt to discuss it in more detail in the Muni Metro article, but I think we should be clear that it isn't part of the Muni Metro system proper. In fact, I think I'll add that verbiage right now. --Jfruh 18:14, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I kind's figured that was the rationale, and it sounds good to me. :-) I also saw the non-existant F-line link and, time permitting, I'll write something about that based on Muni's brochure.
Thanks!
Atlant 18:32, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Light rail" in the lede

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For a while now, there's been a slow drift in the lede of this article in the description of what kind of system Muni Metro is. At one point it was described as a "hybrid light rail/streetcar" system; then someone inserted "subway" into the mix, which then got wiki-linked, and then that wiki-link got auto-redirected to rapid transit.

The latter is a problem because, due to a long-ago compromise on Wikipedia between proponents of the term "subway" and proponents of "metro", "rapid transit" is generally used on Wikipedia to refer to heavy-rail systems, which is one thing the Muni Metro definitely is not. Even though normal people use "subway" to refer to any underground rail system like the Muni Metro uses along Market Street, I fear that this will keep happening if we put "subway" in the lede to the article.

I also think the term "hybrid light rail/streetcar" system is overly confusing. "Light rail" is a notoriously squishy term, but I don't think there's any definition of it that requires that all of a light rail system be separated from other traffic; indeed, almost every light rail system in the US contains sections that mix will automobile traffic to one extent or another. Furthermore, the APTA, which lays down the definitions for US systems we follow elsewhere on the site (e.g., List of United States light rail systems by ridership) doesn't distinguish between light rail and streetcar systems, since it's almost impossible to draw a hard-and-fast line.

With that in mind, I have changed the lede sentence to just refer to Muni Metro as a light rail system. In the second paragraph, I added text to make clear that it's the descendent of a first-generation streetcar network, that it now has underground portions, and that stops range from what would be considered modern light-rail stops to traditional streetcar stops. Hopefully this is accurate and provides the background people need to quickly grasp what the system is like without getting bogged down in multiple jargon-y qualifying terms. --Jfruh (talk) 20:07, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Orphaned references in Muni Metro

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I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Muni Metro's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "chronology":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 09:45, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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