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Rewrite of lede

[edit]

Prior to rewrite: [1]
The Feldenkrais Method is a type of exercise therapy devised by Israeli Moshé Feldenkrais (1904–1984) during the mid-20th century. The method is claimed to reorganize connections between the brain and body and so improve body movement and psychological state.[1][2]

Although there is no medical evidence that the Feldenkrais method improves health outcomes or if it is a cost-effective treatment option,[3] researchers do not believe it poses serious risks.[2]

Rewritten version: [2]
The Feldenkrais Method is a form of somatic education[4][5][6][7][8][9][10] "that integrates the body, mind and psyche through an educational model in which a trained Feldenkrais practitioner guides a client (the ‘student’) through movements with hands-on and verbally administered cues," according to Clinical Sports Medicine.[11] Also studied as an exercise therapy, it was devised by Israeli Moshé Feldenkrais during the mid-20th century. The method is claimed to reorganize connections between the brain and body and so improve body movement and psychological state.[1][2]

There is limited medical evidence that the Feldenkrais Method improves health outcomes in rehabilitation of people with upper limb complaints[12] and lower back pain.[13] There is very limited evidence FM benefits Parkinson's disease.[14] For other conditions, "there is no solid evidence base on which to make recommendations", and the cost-effectiveness is unknown.[3][14] Overall, the question of the benefit of FM remains open.[14] Researchers do not believe FM poses serious risks.[15]

[1]

[3] Accordingly in 2017 the Australian government identified the Feldenkrais Method as a practice that would not qualify for insurance subsidy, saying this step would "ensure taxpayer funds are expended appropriately and not directed to therapies lacking evidence".[16]

[12]

[13]

[14]

References

  1. ^ a b c Stalker D, Glymour C, eds. (1989). Examining Holistic Medicine. Prometheus Books. p. 373. ISBN 9780879755539. a system of exercise therapy developed in the 1940s by former judo instructor Moshe Feldenkrais
  2. ^ a b c Singh, Simon; Ernst, Edzard (2008). Trick or Treatment? Alternative Medicine on Trial. Bantam Press. p. 314. ISBN 978-0-59306-129-9. Cite error: The named reference "Corgi" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  3. ^ a b c Baggoley, Chris (2015). Review of the Australian Government Rebate on Natural Therapies for Private Health Insurance (PDF). Australian Government – Department of Health. ISBN 978-1-76007-171-4. Archived from the original (PDF) on 18 August 2020. Retrieved 23 July 2020.
  4. ^ Meehan, Emma; Carter, Bernie (2021-01-25). "Moving With Pain: What Principles From Somatic Practices Can Offer to People Living With Chronic Pain". Frontiers in Psychology. 11. doi:10.3389/fpsyg.2020.620381. ISSN 1664-1078. PMC 7868595. PMID 33569028.
  5. ^ Mullan, Kelly Jean (2014-10-02). "Somatics: Investigating the common ground of western body–mind disciplines". Body, Movement and Dance in Psychotherapy. 9 (4): 253–265. doi:10.1080/17432979.2014.946092. ISSN 1743-2979.
  6. ^ Bhattacharya, Arup (2012-01-20). A Compendium of Essays on Alternative Therapy. BoD – Books on Demand. ISBN 978-953-307-863-2.
  7. ^ Fonow, Mary Margaret; Cook, Judith A.; Goldsand, Richard S.; Burke-Miller, Jane K. (June 2016). "Using the Feldenkrais Method of Somatic Education to Enhance Mindfulness, Body Awareness, and Empathetic Leadership Perceptions Among College Students: Journal of Leadership Education". Journal of Leadership Education. 15 (3): 116–130. doi:10.12806/V15/I3/R4.
  8. ^ "Somatics: The Yogas of the West". Yoga Journal. 2007-08-08. Retrieved 2024-07-04.
  9. ^ Wozny, Nancy (May 2012). "The Somatics Infusion: Dance Magazine". Dance Magazine. 86 (5): 36–39.
  10. ^ "What is the Feldenkrais Method of somatic education?". Feldenkrais Method. Retrieved 2024-07-04.
  11. ^ Audette, Joseph F.; Bailey, Allison (2007-01-01), Frontera, Walter R.; Herring, Stanley A.; Micheli, Lyle J.; Silver, Julie K. (eds.), "CHAPTER 23 - Complementary and Alternative Medicine and the Athlete", Clinical Sports Medicine, Edinburgh: W.B. Saunders, pp. 307–320, ISBN 978-1-4160-2443-9, retrieved 2023-12-10
  12. ^ a b Hoosain M, de Klerk S, Burger M (2018). "Workplace-Based Rehabilitation of Upper Limb Conditions: A Systematic Review". J Occup Rehabil (Systematic review). 29 (1): 175–193. doi:10.1007/s10926-018-9777-7. hdl:10019.1/103897. PMID 29796982. S2CID 44087712. Archived from the original on 21 April 2022. Retrieved 6 June 2022. Workplace-based work hardening, case manager training and Feldenkrais should be implemented with caution, as only one study supported each of these interventions.
  13. ^ a b Mohan, Vikram; Paungmali, Aatit; Sitilertpisan, Patraporn; Henry, Leonard Joseph; Mohamad, Norazlin Binti; Kharami, Nurul Nadiah Binti (2017-02-01). "Feldenkrais method on neck and low back pain to the type of exercises and outcome measurement tools: A systematic review". Polish Annals of Medicine. 24 (1): 77–83. doi:10.1016/j.poamed.2016.10.003. ISSN 1230-8013.
  14. ^ a b c d Movement disorders: Is the Feldenkrais method effective? IQWiG Reports – Commission No. HT20-05. Institute for Quality and Efficiency in Health Care: Extracts. Cologne (Germany): Institute for Quality and Efficiency in Health Care (IQWiG). 2023. PMID 36780406.
  15. ^ Singh, Simon; Ernst, Edzard (2008). Trick or Treatment? Alternative Medicine on Trial. Bantam Press. p. 314. ISBN 978-0-59306-129-9.
  16. ^ Paola S (17 October 2017). "Homeopathy, naturopathy struck off private insurance list". Australian Journal of Pharmacy. Archived from the original on 18 April 2021. Retrieved 11 January 2018.

I think the lede should be rolled back, and we discuss what changes are needed. --Hipal (talk) 18:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the old version was superior to what we currently have in the article, which is too focused on jargon, misleading quotes, and unhelpful technicalities. MrOllie (talk) 18:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong disagree. The old version did not reflect updated evidence, it had a clear skeptical bias rather than an NPOV perspective on non-medical claims, and it was undersourced. It also incorrectly categorized the entire practice, as reflected in seven added RS. Ocaasi t | c 18:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can I ask what was wrong with "somatic" here? It seems more accurate. Anna (talk) 11:18, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's an in-universe word which lay readers (the audience we are meant to be writing for) will probably not understand. Bon courage (talk) 11:53, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It can be linked. Pretty much all the sources given use the word "somatic". It's much more accurate. Anna (talk) 11:57, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's popular in-universe, but the quality independent sources outside the world of Feldenkrais tend not to (e.g. Australian DoH, WP:SBM). We should resist jargon. Bon courage (talk) 12:02, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Non-RS blog source

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Blogs are not reliable sources. I recommnend this is removed. re WP:RS Anna (talk) 11:26, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blogs by established experts can be used as reliable sources, and David Gorski is an established expert on altmed. MrOllie (talk) 11:42, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would be WP:RSP#ScienceBlogs. Great for WP:PARITY wrt fringe topics, such as this. Bon courage (talk) 11:52, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do wonder how much WP:PARITY applies when there are four systematic reviews present in that article that cover the subject with actual rigor. Are we really in need of skeptical potshots when there is actual science going on? Ocaasi t | c 12:29, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most altmeds have plenty of "science going on" even, still, homeopathy.[3] Bon courage (talk) 12:37, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not talking about the pseudoscience, I'm talking about the mainstream WP:MEDRS reviews. Ocaasi t | c 12:43, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The point is, there are mainstream MEDRS reviews of all kinds of woo. It doesn't stop them being woo. The idea that wiggling your legs will help with autism is just quackery, so some WP:PARITY on this seems appropriate & necessary. Bon courage (talk) 12:45, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose that depends on if the 'actual science' is being published in junk journals such as the ones mentioned above in the 'Missing systematic reviews' talk section. MrOllie (talk) 12:38, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, no, the FOUR systematic reviews we already cite IN the article. Ocaasi t | c 12:40, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Blog source in this case is criticising a blog, a blogger and a website, not Feldenkrais. David Gorski is not saying he knows anything about Feldrenkrais. Anna (talk) 15:10, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't that rather the point? That the official blog of the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston was routinely promoting dubious stuff. Bon courage (talk) 15:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As you know, the article is nothing to do with our personal opinions or impressions or tastes. This is to do with sourcing. The critique of the Anderson Centre's webpage. He's not an "expert" on Feldenkrais or anything to do with it Anna (talk) 20:23, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He's an expert on fringe medicine, quackery and pseudoscience and he is "reliable" for his own view, no? Bon courage (talk) 20:26, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Polish Annals of medicine source - moved from article for discussion

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Is this source RS/MEDRS? This journal seems not to be in PUBMED let alone MEDLINE-indexed, and has no impact factor? Since it seems to be making somewhat exceptional claims, it would need to be a good source to stay.

Material moved from article

A 2017 systematic review in the Polish Annals of Medicine found that a: "positive effect following FM among neck and [low back pain] disorders was reported by all of the studies, some of good quality, it is concluded that FM proved to be effective, but not in all people with musculoskeletal disorders."[1]

References

  1. ^ Mohan, Vikram; Paungmali, Aatit; Sitilertpisan, Patraporn; Henry, Leonard Joseph; Mohamad, Norazlin Binti; Kharami, Nurul Nadiah Binti (2017-02-01). "Feldenkrais method on neck and low back pain to the type of exercises and outcome measurement tools: A systematic review". Polish Annals of Medicine. 24 (1): 77–83. doi:10.1016/j.poamed.2016.10.003. ISSN 1230-8013.

Bon courage (talk) 13:02, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, so Elsevier isn't a sufficiently mainstream publisher now? Are we SURE we're not moving the goalposts? Ocaasi t | c 13:03, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No publisher is reliable all the time for all topics, especially in the medical space. Since I highly doubt anyone has ever claimed that, the goalposts are right where they've always been. MrOllie (talk) 13:06, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't buy it, @MrOllie. Dismissing this source looks like just cherry-picking. Ocaasi t | c 13:08, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not 'cherry picking' to point out that a journal isn't MEDLINE-indexed, which has been a part of WP:MEDRS for years. MrOllie (talk) 13:12, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I asked if it's reliable since by the usual measures it seemingly isn't (e.g. MEDLINE indexing, some impact factor). Are there mitigating factors? Maybe it was "cherry picked" to say something positive about FM (which would be bad). We do have some good MEDRS on this topic, so there is really no need for barrel scraping wrt evidence. Bon courage (talk) 13:13, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It was published by Elsevier. It's in PubMed?. It's a 7 year-old systematic review. It's been cited by 12 other papers. These are the kinds of things MEDRS explicitly looks for. WP:MEDRS does not mention Impact Factor at all. We don't remove it just because it says something good about "woo". It's not the bottom of the barrel; it's the middle of the cream :) Ocaasi t | c 13:19, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"It's in PubMed" ← well that's generally not enough, but it's a start for investigating further. What is the PMID? Bon courage (talk) 13:29, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am wrong, it's not in PubMed. I think I misread POAMED. Apologies for the mistake. It's in Scopus, EMBASE, and Academic Search Complete. [4] Ocaasi t | c 13:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oooh, that MIAR site looks useful; didn't know about that. For the question at hand though, I think the Scopus entry[5] confirms this source falls comfortably below the level we should be looking for, especially given that we have some other, better, sources about evidence, and that this Polish source is saying something which is somewhat surprising. Bon courage (talk) 13:57, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the journal is no longer with Elsevier. But no, Elsevier has published plenty of crap in its time (profit is all; academic integrity is nothing). Remember Homeopathy (journal)? Bon courage (talk) 13:06, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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