Talk:Joan of Arcadia

Cast and characters

What the fck?!!! A whole entry for the casts alone but no single briefing on the characters? I've seen the first and probably the only episode of Joan of Arcadia I will ever see (It airs at 1:30 am when I'm busy in my computer writing, a prob with firefox stopped my resourcing so... I was there like I'm here now) and I enjoyed the episode (where a baby was found in a trash can) more due to its characters than anything else (well, the protagonist is a beautiful woman but the whole "sex has a place in the list of evil things" idea is too preachy even for a show that is, obviously, anything except preachy; indeed for something pseudo-nondenominational prochristian/promonotheist/prostatusquo... It was well done) and I came in here hoping it will have more data than any other page, but just like them... It focuses more on cast than on episode guide or character descriptions... Hey I even endured the airhead fictional diary entries given by the cbs on the subject... The character represented by those words was far worse than the appealing heroine of the show and it made me consider much about them... Like Adam not being just a friend with a crush but the boyfriend or ex-boyfriend (I saw it when it had already began so I could miss any surer indicator)... So anyway, dispite my long paragraph, this is the point, there's a need for more data on the characters and episode guide and plot and less focus on the extended cast...Herle King 09:40, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

RESPONSE: There are many other places on the web that has all that information you want. I suggest you watch a few more episodes before you come here and ask for other people to do free work, on a show you barely know anything about.

i got something to say

cbs own fox when it canceled dark angel. cbs cancleed joan of arcadia. cbas owned fox canceled titus and family. it goes on. cbs suck it.

It sure sounds like you have to say it in a hurry.

Response:

Duh! Read a few television biographies. It is commonly admitted that the likes and dislikes of TV executives and certain key advertisers for a show are far more important than demographic numbers for shows above a certain minimum performance. Conceptually in network terms the majority of American people will zone out to a very broad spectrum of pretty low quality TV programs. You may have noticed that sweeps weeks and unified network season premieres are pretty much non-events nowadays. So more than ever TV programs really compete primarily for attention from TV executives including local station managers -- NOT TV audiences. Similarly public TV content follows the desires of a few intellectual executive committees rather than representational voting (Thank God).

Executives can settle for lower network profit margins to express their own opinion of what programming lineups show be. Advertisers for essential daily products (lots of people buy them regardless) can advertise on networks with lower numbers if the show premise offends them. At least up to a point, those points being why most top TV executives eventually get fired rather than retired and why certain word of mouth products fade from the next generation's memory.

But someone really hated JoA. Negative mood (hopeless) cliffhangers like season two are intentional stakes put in shows to make sure they don't resurrect without overwhelming cash backing. Of course another factor for cancellation could be that many recent TV shows with big name actors and actresses are made with very limited commitments. That is I also suspect lots of actors were ready to move on to fresher projects unless paid a lot more for season 3. And a few of them were fair big names who likely started off commanding pretty healthy salaries. I wouldn't be surprised if for example Steenburgen said "Two years was a nice change of pace but I got to get back to movies and stage".

69.23.120.164 17:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to add to above that the fact the Jennifer love hewit had a pilot for the Ghost Whisperer probably had alot to do with it too. She was a bigger name than Amber Tamblien. Clearly network executives don't care what the audience thinks or Conan would still have the tonight show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.250.214.115 (talk) 07:40, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Opening song

When I added the openning song words, I added "Trying to make his way home" twice because I think it is repeated. Would someone else specifically check? Val42 23:18, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it's repeated. I shortened it in the name of brevity. It doesn't seem to me that repeating the line in print adds anything. Lyrics are problematic in a copyright sense anyway, although brief quotations tend to be kosher under fair use. -- Decumanus 23:31, 2005 Apr 23 (UTC)

Are you sure the song is sung by Joan Osborne? It sounds nothing like her, and I was under the impression it was a cover by someone else... Foofy 06:23, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Me bad, checked a dozen or so search results and it was indeed her, she must have redone it.  :) Foofy 06:29, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Joan of Arcadia in Canada?

Other than U.S. networks appearing on Canadian cable and satellite lineups, was the show aired on any of the Canadian networks (CTV, CBC, Global, etc.)?

CTV simulcast it. -- Gridlock Joe 02:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

The Town of Arcadia

I've never seen the show but I'd thought that I would like to say that there is a city in southern California called Arcadia, so it could possibly be the same one in the show instead of a fictional one. Just a little input. -- unsigned comment

Although it was never emphasized, the show did show the Maryland flag in the police station and the cars had Maryland license tags. -- unsigned answer to Arcadia question

Missing Scenes on the DVD Pilot?

When this show was being broadcast I was a loyal and attentive viewer. I've had the DVD set for season one for over a year--but just got around to watching the pilot and the first episode tonight. (10/20/06)

I'm really puzzled. There seems to be quite a bit that I remember from the broadcast pilot missing from the pilot on the DVD. (?)

The "thug" who was killing the women in Arcadia should have been interrogated by the chief and his detective. The mother of the first woman who was killed should have come and thanked the chief once the murder of her daughter was solved. None of that was on the DVD version of the pilot. Is the DVD pilot missing scenes or am I remembering scenes that were never broadcast. (?)

I'm pretty disappointed. I hope there aren't omissions like this on the rest of the DVD. It's like the pilot was an hour and a half show when broadcast, that was shrunk down to 45 minutes on the DVD. (?)

I've watched a recording from CBS HDTV and it was only 45 minutes long, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't have the scenes that you describe. Also, you can look at [1] for a transcript of the pilot – beware of spyware pop-ups on that site, however. Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 08:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Page recommendation

Someone should make a list of the various incarnations God took over the course of the show, with the actors playing them.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.50.177.18 (talk • contribs)

YES YES YES! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.146.45.110 (talk • contribs)

There was a list and someone deleted it (or possibly moved it). The history and this Talk page fails to provide a reason for the removal. Reverted the deletion. If the article needs to be shortened then the tedious list of broadcasters seems like a far better candidate for removal. -- Horkana (talk) 05:25, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Isn’t Joan the protagonist? Or was it actually the dad? I’m confused, I’m sorry. - sep 17 2023 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:16D0:5410:C81F:F0B5:7B47:F2BE (talk) 00:53, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Sad State of the Country TV Audience

The cancellation of Season 3 is a sad reflection of the state of TV audiences and studios. I watched all the episodes season 1 and 2 and it is one of the few shows that really touched my heart. Instead we are inundated with shows that although admittedly may be "more exciting", probably kill brain cells and reduce IQ levels.

Having looked around on the web, I do not see it likely that the show will be resurrected. If it is I doubt Amber Tamblyn who makes the show can be persuaded to return, although I hope so. Almost everyone else can be replaced although it would be nice if they stayed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.22.50.21 (talk) 09:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

I just can't believe they got away with saying this God was also Allah. That sticks in most Americans' craw, it's got to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 00:26, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Assign Blame Where It's Due

The paragraph beginning "But someone really hated JoA" is full of words like "could be" and "I suspect". It's a documented fact who cancelled JOAN: CBS president Leslie Moonves, a glorified bean counter who thinks you get a successful network by cloning previous hits(CSI, CSI Miami, CSI New York, NCIS -- need I say more?) and is suspicious of anything original. User:CharlesTheBold 00:06, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

• Where are you seeing such a paragraph? Wahkeenah 09:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The last paragraph of "I got something to say" on the discussion tab. CharlesTheBold 04:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Discussion is often just peoples' opinion. It's supposed to be about article improvement, but not always. Nothing in it is "canon" even by the standards of Wikipedia.

On another note when I se how bizarre and irritating Ghost Whisperer has become, not that it was ever great to begin with, I miss this show more than ever. It was sort of wishy-washy at times, but at least it didn't get into any woo-woo occult conspiracy stuff that I saw.--T. Anthony 07:07, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Proposals to remove sections

A lot of people have put a lot of work into the "International" Section of this article but if you think in terms of an encyclopedia how much of that information if any is actually notable for a television series which has ceased production? Is it really worth mentioning anything more than it was first broadcast on CBS? Sure the list might be useful to casual readers wanting to find out where they can see the show locally but the information will be transitory and subject to frequent change. I would suggest (re)moving that section from the article, possibly putting it here in the discussion section for a time if people feel it is useful even if it isn't generally notable or encyclopedic. -- Horkana (talk) 00:18, 6 April 2008 (UTC) (who figures an article like this should about a finished TV Series should be reaching a stable state and also be almost finished by now.)

Never got around to it but someone else removed the International Broadcasts section. Shame they didn't comment here. The different god characters section was removed too but I'll reinstate that unless there is strong justification for removing it, one of the more interesting sections of the article. -- Horkana (talk) 23:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Reverted changes by 68.45.235.240 and reinstated the Cast and Crew sections. Maybe the Crew section could go but the Cast section should not be removed without some kind of discussion or consensus. Unfortunately it seems protected pages are limited to controversial topics or pages which are consistently vandalized, there is no concept of protecting pages as they become increasingly stable. Retitled this section in the hope that others might comment here before removing sections such as Cast in future, or discuss the reintroduction of sections such as international broadcast. -- Horkana (talk) 23:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

What does this mean?

The following appears (bizarely) in the Premise section: "Its controversial cancellation, along with other similar moves in the media, such as cancellations of Third Watch, American Dreams, and Judging Amy, produced an outcry from many Americans who felt that their entertainment tastes and demands were being completely ignored." What does it mean? What links those four shows and seperates them from all the shows that didn't cancelled? 86.136.205.220 (talk) 02:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I read it to mean that public opinion is not the driving force behind executive decisions with regard to which shows 'live', and which shows 'die'. Obviously this is more of a personal opinion than citated fact (which seems to be the ultimate goal of anyone trying to offer a point of interest on Wikipedia), but it is sad to think of how many shows with immense potential have been cancelled for reasons that the public never understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.206.254 (talk) 14:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Citation Needed

Someone tagged the article with a request for citations but unfortunately didn't mark any specific parts of the article with requests for citation. Most of the information here comes from the show itself or the DVD (the names for the different representations of God for example). A few episode references and general references (more than the 2 at the time of writing) should be a reasonable enough effort to remove the request for citations, or at least replace it with a comment asking for specific requests rather than a broad tag on the whole article. -- Horkana (talk) 23:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Just glancing through it, the following need citations: airdates, theme song section, production section, reception section, and DVD releases. Ωphois 23:42, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Hilary Duff

How is one appearance by Hilary Duff notable enough for inclusion? Ωphois 10:10, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm preserving the article as it has been stable for a long time, and only making constructive changes. I'm not going to argue notability of show that ran for 2 seasons, it's hard enough getting citations for any of the article at this point without trying to prove notability of details. Hilary Duff should be mentioned in some way, please suggest the best way to mention her. I agree a whole separate section for her in isolation seems odd but even Wentworth Miller only 2 made appearances, Zachary Quinto only made one appearance as Pretentious Filmmaker God (1 episode, 2004. P.O.V. He was on Lizzie Maguire too incidentally from his IMDB profile). Deleting is easy, making constructive edits and finding sources is hard. -- Horkana (talk) 11:10, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Sources is what Wikipedia is entirely based off of. If you are unable to give any reason for why Duff's appearance should be listed other than "because it's been this way", then it should be removed. Looking at the page, the entire list of God's portrayers should be removed as Wikipedia:Fancruft. Ωphois 15:14, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

You miss the point that this entire article is old enough and difficult enough to source anything for that you could claim you are doing "the right thing" by deleting most or even all of it. I'm assuming the edits were made in good faith, I don't think massively cutting down an article that has been largely stable and unchallenged for a long time is really best practice. Other editors disagree and would ruin good older articles, holding them to the same high standard they would hold an article newly created this week. I ask you not to ruin this article, judge older articles in good faith by what was expected at the time. There are many more constructive ways you could change the article. You could rephrase the list of god incarnations in prose that goes to elaborating the style of the show, rather than being a dull list some might deem trivial through a flaw of presentation. If we were deleting anything I'd delete the list of episodes (which I added) which although factual are tediously boring and offer far less insight into the serious than the list of god incarnations. A short summary of each episode could massively improve this article. There is so much that could be done to improve the article, please focus on those things before rushing to make easy deletions. -- Horkana (talk) 00:48, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

You have yet to give any reason why Hillary Duff is a notable guest. I'm sorry, but you can't use the excuse "it's too hard to search for sources". If they are notable appearances as you claim, then there would be sources showing this. Ωphois 07:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I notice now the Guest cast heading covers not just Duff but the incarnations of god since most of them are only guest cast but a few you could argue are recurring. Do you want to delete the whole section? That wouldn't be an improvement to the article. The section might be improved by including other guest stars besides those who played incarnations of God, I notice Sydney Tamiia Poitier appeared in eight episodes (more than she appeared in Veronica Mars, where she appeared in the credits for a whole season) and some of the other guest cast might be worth including. -- Horkana (talk) 20:56, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I didn't suggest removing them. I just asked why Duff is notable when you reverted my removal of her. Recurring guests like Poitier are notable enough and can be included, but not just people who make one unnotable appearance. Ωphois 21:07, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Duff is fairly famous, and was at the time unlike Zachary Quinto, and more notable than an appearance by Amber Tamblyn's father. In my edit summary I noted that perhaps it should be formatted differently, the convenient layout of the section grouping the god incarnations together might give a mistaken impression to editors like yourself that some great or disproportionate claim of notability was being made, when I'd say she is about as notable as the rest of the section. MTV and VH1 (the latter might be an adequate reference) and there do actually seem to be some articles still out there about it, more than I'd expected after this long. (Trying to get references for older articles like 80's movies is a pain, other editors have unreasonable expectations about long standing undisputed parts of articles, expecting the same level of citations as they would for this weeks news. So I may have overreacted a bit earlier) You can add that VH1 link to the article or I will, if you want to make/suggest formatting changes or add other guest stars to the article so the Hillary Duff bit doesn't seem incongruous please do so. -- Horkana (talk) 21:37, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Just because an actress is famous doesn't make one appearance notable. From what you said, the character never returns, and doesn't appear to add anything to the overall storyline. As for the incarnations of God, the recurring ones should stay, but any making few appearances should probably be removed. Ωphois 21:51, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Third Opinion Request in progress:

I am responding to a third opinion request made at WP:3O and am currently reviewing the issues. I have made no previous edits on Joan of Arcadia and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. (Please let me know immediately on my talk page if I am incorrect about either of those points.) The third opinion process (FAQ) is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. My personal standards for issuing third opinions can be viewed here.—TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 02:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Response to Third Opinion Request:

Opinion: The inclusion of guest stars (and other detail information) is an unsettled issue at the Television Project and I would note that there are some significant guest stars lists on WP: List of The L Word cast members Guest stars of Class of the Titans List of guest stars on Malcolm in the Middle List of guest stars on The Simpsons My opinion is that though there are some objectors, the consensus is at this time that guest star lists should be allowed. The inclusion of Duff should stay in, but if there were other significant guest stars that they should also be researched and listed. The article is, indeed, very lightly sourced; let me recommend that you post a request for help at WP:TV. What's next: Once you've considered this opinion click here to see what happens next.—TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 03:41, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Joe Mantegna

Not sure how to integrate it with the article yet but this AVClub interview with Joe Mantegna has a chunk about Joan of Arcadia. He says "it’s one of the proudest things I’ve done" and explains how he got involved with the show and other bits and pieces. -- Horkana (talk) 21:05, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

More references

The tag requesting more references is a bit outdated and more sources have been added since the article wast tagged. I would delete it now, only more sources such as TV Squad would still be an improvement. The AV Club doesn't really have any sources (3 search results 1 of which is already included in the article). IGN doesn't have much either, just two articles, one for each season of DVDs. -- Horkana (talk) 00:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Capitalisation of religious pronouns

I have reverted Wkharrisjr's reversion of my edit. The assertion that "Western tradition is to capitalize "He" when refering to the Judeo-Christian God" is untrue - it is a point of style that varies ([2] [3] [4] [5]). The school of thought that capitalises pronouns referring to God is arguably archaic and limited to a few (Christian) religious bodies (i.e. it's POV). More importantly, MOS:CAPS#Religions, deities, philosophies, doctrines and their adherents clearly states that the standard on Wikipedia is not to capitalise:

Pronouns referring to deities, or nouns (other than names) referring to any material or abstract representation of any deity, human or otherwise, are not capitalized.

Since this is an article about a television program, not a central article on Christianity or even religion more generally, I can't see how there could be a case for making an exception. Also, capitalisation is not currently used consistently in this article. Only the first paragraph of the plot section uses "He", the rest of the article sticks to "he". —Joseph Roe^Tk•Cb, 08:21, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that List of Joan of Arcadia cast members be merged into Joan of Arcadia. I think that the content in the List of Joan of Arcadia cast members article can easily be explained in the context of Joan of Arcadia, and the List of Joan of Arcadia cast members article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Joan of Arcadia will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. NeoBatfreak (talk) 07:30, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Merging LoE back to this article

I made note at WT:TV about a discussion presently going on about when it's appropriate to split the episode list out of a TV series article. From reading it, I'm gathering the split should not occur simply when a series goes to its second season, but when the size of the "readable prose" (without any accounting of the summaries in episode tables) reaches a certain level per WP:SIZESPLIT. The discussion is reiterating that guideline in determining the threshold for splitting.

While I've been watching the WT:TV discussion, I was surprised to see WP:BOLD edits by Wikipedical that merged the LoE content of this series back into this article, per this and this. Not that I'm objecting to this move, on its face, in light of the current WT:TV discussion, but certainly no discussion has happened at all here. Kind of an out-of-the-blue thing, even with my paying attention over at WT:TV.

The series reached 45 episodes over two seasons (and personally, I wish it would've lasted longer - it was a good series). I'm thinking with that episode count, that's on the edge of qualifying for being split (and it was with these edits by QuasyBoy back in September 2010 [6][7]). However, the "readable prose" word count size from what I'm seeing (using the script found here - which I discovered following the WT:TV discussion - and this would be with or without the episode tables there) is around 6k, so not sure whether it should've stayed split or the merge was the right move. MPFitz1968 (talk) 14:58, 25 June 2018 (UTC) last edited 17:38, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Mistake in a source talking about the show and representation of Asians

The author Eric Michael Bryant wrote in Not Like Me: A Field Guide for Influencing a Diverse World (2010) that the show Joan of Arcadia of misrepresents Arcadia, California by not including Asian characters that reflect the ethnic mix in Arcadia.

Bryant, Eric Michael. Not Like Me: A Field Guide for Influencing a Diverse World. Harper Collins, 2010. ISBN 0310329965, 9780310329961. p. 132.

• "Joan of Arcadia, which took place in Arcadia High School, included[...]However Joan of Arcadia was strikingly devoid of Asian characters. The Arcadia High School I know in the LA area is in a predominately Asian area, and about two-thirds of the students are Asian."

However the show Joan of Arcadia is set in the fictional Arcadia, Maryland. This is confirmed in this source:

Coker, Stephanie L. "Joan of Arcadia: A Modern Maiden on Trial" (in Part 1. Personal and Political Desires). In: Pagès, Meriem and Karolyn Kinane (editors). The Middle Ages on Television: Critical Essays. McFarland & Company, April 16, 2015. ISBN 0786479418, 9780786479412. Start: p. 31. CITED: p. 36.

WhisperToMe (talk) 05:15, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

The Many Incarnations of God

They left off the list my favorite: "Liquor Store Clerk god", actor Gary Anthony Williams, from episode 13 in Season One (Recreation) where Joan and Luke throw a party at their parents home while parents Will and Helen are at the SPA for the weekend. Joan: "God smokes?" God: "I don't inhale". 12.45.51.202 (talk) 14:06, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

God could be a woman...

In the show, God clearly appears as both men and women so the constant referral of this article to God as 'He' and 'Him' isn't exactly accurate. I wouldn't capitalize any of the pronouns or 'Hell' either for that matter as the God of this show is also not strictly Judeo-Christian in philosophy. 2607:FEA8:BEE7:9800:F949:D2F8:EA52:6EFF (talk) 02:21, 18 September 2023 (UTC)