Talk:Sir George Downing, 1st Baronet

Downing's background and character

In the Introduction as it stands in December 2019, Dowling is described as "an Anglo-Irish preacher, soldier, statesman, diplomat, turncoat and spy". Several of these descriptions are questionable

Anglo-Irish There is some doubt as to where Downing was born, two sources say Dublin, one London. His father is said to have been in Ireland in 1614, the year that he married his first wife, who died in 1622 in Dublin, but he married his second wife, Downing's mother in Suffolk, also in 1622. As Downing's younger siblings, born from 1628 onward, are all said to have been born on Suffolk or London, even if he were born in Ireland, it seems he must have left that country as a young child.

The article on Anglo-Irish states it was a term of the 19th and early 20th centuries to identify a Irish social class, mostly the descendants and successors of the English Protestant Ascendancy, often the members of the Church of Ireland who made up the professional and landed class. Even if Downing were born in Ireland, he hardly falls within this description and his opponents insulted him because of his low birth and New England education, not any Irish connection.

Statesman defined in Statesman as "usually a politician, diplomat or other notable public figure who has had a long and respected career at the national or international level": the word that would be missing in Downing's case would be "respected". Whether or not he deserved respect from his contemporaries, he did not receive it, and his diplomatic and political methods were hardly deserving of respect. "Politician" would be more accurate.

Turncoat the article on Turncoat excepts from the definition individuals who believe that the goal they once sought is no longer attainable. Downing first wished for a Puritan republic, but realised in the 1650s a monarchical form of government was preferable under Cromwell and, after Cromwell's death, under Charles II. "Turncoat" rather lacks neutrality.

Spy Except to the extent that all diplomats are spies (and Downing is already called a diplomat), Downing was not a spy himself, but controlled networks of spies, so Spymaster is a better term.

A description: "was in turn a preacher, soldier, statesman, diplomat and spymaster and politician whose allegiances notably changed during his career" seems more reasonable.

Sscoulsdon (talk) 09:13, 8 December 2019 (UTC)