Talk:Timba

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JK, thanks for you message and for inserting the box. Why all the links to pages that don't exist? I really don't think that's necessary -and besides, it doesn't look great. Whoever will be writing those pages will probably find their way here, and link up whatever needs to be linked up, no? kash

I like links to nonexistent pages. It calls attention to what needs to be done. For example, I would have never put stuff up for Inti-Illimani or Nueva trova or ... had I not seen their names in red and thought "what kind of encyclopedia is this!?" —Johnkarp 04:53, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Name origin

Hearing some of Timba I cannot help but think it is related to "Timberland", see, eg. Timbaland. So "timber" could be the origin of the word. Is it correct? Mikkalai 20:25, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

According to my dictionary, the Spanish word timba means "game", as in gambling. The word also relates to the terms timbal (the Cuban drums used in this style, but also others like salsa, danzón etc.), and also to the Cubanismo timbero, referring to the lead drummer in a rumba group, playing the quinto.

On salsacrazy.com, Chuy Varela states that "Timba describes a certain feeling, vibe and is used as an umbrella term to define some new dynamics in Cuban music."

Some say that Los Van Van invented the name, but the word was definitely around way before.

Tobias Dammers 07:03, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, timba refers back to "feeling, vibe" as in "tremenda timba!". It doesn't refer to the timbales. The quinto player is a timbero but I think that's because in order to play the quinto you need a fair amount of timba. Timba is also a food (guava bread) and a barrio of Havana.

The French version says it comes from Cuban slang for "new". Get-back-world-respect 00:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Someone changed "guía-coro" to "coro-pregón". I'm not 100% sure about the difference, and if coro-pregón is the more correct term or what. "Pregón" is an old word and in Cuba (I don't know elsewhere) it's mostly used for people selling things in the streets, announcing their merchandise. "Guía" refers to the specific "improvisations" which the soloist sings (thus 1st, 2nd, 3rd guía, etc.) Anybody know? kash It could well be me long time ago. Coro-pregon was an article, while guía-coro is was not even a redirect. I am not that fluent in Spanish, so I decided to be on the sage side. Now I see it includes the term "guia", so if you feel "guia" matches Cuba better, please replace. mikka (t) 01:06, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

In response to guía versus pregón. Pregón comes from the street vendors singing about their products. Such vendors were called pregoneros. In music, pregón differs from guía (literally "guide") in two ways. First, it's an older term. Guía is almost universally used in timba, but seldom used in salsa (so since this is a timba page, guía would be the correct choice). But a more concrete difference has to do with the degree of improvisation. Some pregones are actually improvised - words and music - on the spot - a time honored tradition in this type of music, but the term guía usually refers to a worked out phrase - likely the one used on the studio reoording - and it can "guide" (hence the term "guía") the band because they know which guía comes before the mambo, and so on. Again, this is my first stab at Wikipedia so I apologize if I'm misusing the talk page - feel free to remove all this if it's not supposed to be here. I don't understand how the conversational aspect of this page is supposed to be formatted. (end of kevintimba's comments on guías)

"Timba" as a musical genre was first described by Jose Luis Cortez, the musical director of NG La Banda, a well renowned cuban timba band, around 1989-1990. Although, Jose Luis Cortez was the first to call it Timba, it was the many years of cuban bands' contributions reflecting the evolution of cuban music. Kevin Moore of Timba.com ( http://www.timba.com/artists/nglabanda/index.asp ) has a comprehensive description of how Timba came about. The relationship to Timberland, although a creative thought, is not real: User: Armando Salazar 18:22, 15 Apr 2006 (EST)

You all are horribly wrong. The term Timba became so with the music because of Issac Delgado and Juan Formell when they did team Cuba. WTF. Listen to Issac Delgado's interview 2 weeks after he arrived here in Miami and you'll hear him talk further about Timba, salsa, and Alain Perez.

Timba is what they call rumberos with virtuosity. Now, go listen.

http://www.timbastars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/cp3.mp3 http://www.timbastars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ip2.mp3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.83.108 (talk) 02:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Pictures

>I noticed there are no pictures. Anyone want to change this?

I can address the issue of pictures. I just listened to an audio book about Wikipedia and this is my time trying to participate so I'm probably doing it wrong. I went to timba and fixed some typos. Then I looked at the edit history and noticed that a user "Morning Glory" had deleted all the photos by Tom Ehrlich Tjejazz - with entries like this:

(cur | prev) 10:32, 8 January 2013‎ CommonsDelinker (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (57,920 bytes) (-48)‎ . . (Removing "Manolito.jpg", it has been deleted from Commons by Morning Sunshine because: Per commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Tjejazz.) (undo)

Tom Ehrlich is a close friend of mine and the photos he takes are entirely his own and he posts them to timba.com and is quite willing for anyone to use them. Thus, there is no reason to delete any of the photos that Morning Glory has deleted. I don't know how to undo this action. Here is more on this photographer: http://www.timba.com/user_pages/new-galleries-in-progress.

Typical clave directions

Tdammers on July 18, 2006 added that Salsa typically had a 2-3 son clave, and Timba a 3-2 rumba clave. This was changed on October 19, 2006 to 3-2 son clave and 2-3 rumba clave. From my listening experience, Tdammers was right. Those that agree, please change back. Those that don't, please elucidate. --91.32.26.39 09:32, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Timba frequently uses rumba clave, but that is just the tip of the rumba iceberg. The general influence of rumba as a musical style and as an attitude is huge in timba. In the History section, "latin jazz, disco, funk and hip hop" are mentioned as influences of timba, but I venture to say that in the 70s when these styles materialized, they were equally influenced by rumba. In any case, it would be good if the history section reflected this dominating influence of rumba on timba, when it comes to rhythms, arrangement techniques, sound palette, lyrics, dress style, dance. Csmalt (talk) 15:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Stylistic aspects

"Contrary to (early) salsa, timba makes no claim to social or political messages, partly because of the political circumstances in Cuba."

This is technically true, because it would be unwise to make this overt claim. However, there *are* many social messages, and some political. The political ones are inevitably in disguise to pass the censors, the social ones often presented with a humor component. Songs have frequently been banned from radio and TV, and artists got their working permits revoked because of lyrical content. Many lyrics can be read as double entendre and you can never be sure if this is intentional. Csmalt (talk) 15:32, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

songs as examples?

while I have heard much from ng la banda and los van van, I still would like to know which songs specifically contain references to classical works from bach for piano. 72.188.180.87 (talk) 06:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

In response to request for classical references, I cannot think of a direct Bach reference. NG La Banda's "El trágico" begins with a quote from Grieg's Piano Concerto. Los Van Van's "Somos de la Gran Escena" contains a passage humorously parodying Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto 1 in Bb, 1st mvt. introduction. Arsenio Rodríguez's "Mira cuidadito" has a cierre based on Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, everybody and his brother has a quote from Flight of the Bumblebee. Hundreds of danzones have "cover" versions of everything from Ravel's "Pavane pour un infante défunte" to Koussevitsky's "Chason Triste" to Italian opera (Magic Flute, Rigoletto et al). Then of course, there are all the quotes of Chick Corea's "Spain" which is itself a quote of Rodrigo's Concierto Aranjuez.

But Bach is usually mentioned when commenting that the left hand of timba piano "sounds like Bach" meaning a string of steady 16th notes, so it's really more that it sounds like a certain type of baroque keyboard playing, but the accents are drastically different, implying all sorts of syncopations not in baroque music. In "Negrita Fina," vocalist Yenisel Valdés makes a direct reference to 'Juan Sebastián Bach' to introduce the piano on break-down (at 1:58). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevintimba (talk • contribs) 07:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)