Talk:List of The King of Fighters characters

Stuff

I am removing the "looks like [random celebrity]" comments because they are baseless. If these were obvious references (like Balrog was based on Mike Tyson), then it would be relevant, but these are anything but. King based on Ellen DeGeneris? That's highly implausible. --feitclub 23:16, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Make the red, blue! --Dangerous-Boy

Highly Implausible? Have you seen King? Have you seen Ellen DeGeneris? I agree with removing the comment, but C'MON! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.24.119.11 (talk) 15:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

sources

Where do these lists of characters, such as Elisabeth Blanctorche, come from? I can't find any information on a game called KOF Tales of Ash on google... - Stoph 04:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

That's in reference to the Story arcs that comprise the games. -Zero^Talk 19:22, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

KoF: Maximum Impact 2 and KoF XI (PS2) version characters

Should the remaining characters from these two games not be added? The S 19:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Lucky and Brian

Didn't Lucky come from Dunk Dreams and dosen't Brain wear a uniform from one of the teams in Football Frenzy? If so shouldn't we put that here? (BackLash 11:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC))

Depict a source backing up these claims, and we can place them in the triva section of the respective aricles. -Zero^Talk

The infobox(es) for KOF characters…

…need to be adjusted to comply with Wikipedia:Don't use hiddenStructure. --elias.hc 18:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Question Marks

What is the deal with all the question marks after the characture names?216.174.162.194 20:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Merge

The characters of this series do not have an appropriate amount of real world information to require separate articles per WP:FICT. They would need a few paragraphs of solid creation and reception information each to stay. Because of that, they will be merged to this list after a general understanding is established. After that, this list will require general creation and reception information as well.

If you would like to keep some of the articles, you will need to find creation information from things like interviews and reception information from reviews. This information will need to be directly about the character, and there will need to be a good chunk of it for each one. Please note that if a number of people want to keep the articles, but cannot establish them that WP:CON states "When consensus is referred to in Wikipedia discussion, it always means 'within the framework of established policy and practice'. Even a majority of a limited group of editors will almost never outweigh community consensus on a wider scale, as documented within policies." That means that arguments are more important than numbers, so without an actual argument to back your side, it does not hold a great weight. TTN (talk) 21:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Keep as separate articles and add pictures. Characters from multiple games in notable series have a cultural significance that merits separate articles. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 22:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Please read over WP:WAF and WP:FICT for what characters and other articles need. Also, this is required per WP:N, WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:NOT, so this is not limited to those or anything. TTN (talk) 22:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I do not see any "violations" that could not be fixed by adding extra sources. Best, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 22:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

If you can add the information that I describe above, that will be fine. The problem is that the information does not exist in a great enough quantity to actually be worth keeping the articles. I wouldn't doubt that you can find a few sentences for various characters, but that will not be enough to warrant separate articles, though it would help the list. TTN (talk) 22:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This proposal is too broad. Some characters are clearly more important than others; the most notable example is perhaps Terry Bogard, who is part of three franchises, 40 games, and is the mascot for SNK Playmore, not to mention various other media appearances. As far as I'm aware of, he's the most prolific video game fighter in existance. --SeizureDog (talk) 00:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

If he is that important, he should have real world information. Otherwise, there is no reason for it to have an article. TTN (talk) 00:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Jesus Christ. What is wrong with you? --HanzoHattori (talk) 03:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

What's wrong with who? Those are the rules. I'm sure SeizureDog is right about Terry Bogarde, but even that article is currently unsourced. Any individual characters who are worthy of their own articles need to prove it. This is basic stuff that applies to every single one of Wikipedia's two million articles, not just these. Miremare 16:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Nothing below is intended as a personal attack; rather, it's an attempt to identify ducks and move on to productive discussion.
It looks like things have gotten off on the wrong foot here. IMO, TTN struck the wrong attitude with the statement that boils down to "Unless you fix this right now, I'm going to delete all these articles. And then I'm going to go after the list I merged them to. To stop this, you need to bring the articles up to FA-level sourcing." I assume that's stronger than what TTN intended, but that's how it reads to me. Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles came back with an argument that boils down to Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Notability is inherited, to which TTN throws back a number of abbreviations related to the wider issue rather than the specific fallacy. Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles later makes a good point that the "problem" here could easily be fixed by adding sources; this is completely correct and is exactly what needs to be done. But rather than encouraging that solution, TTN slaps it down by basically stating "Yes. But you won't be able to do it, so it's not worth even letting you try." TTN, you seem fond of quoting policies; try this one from WP:CON: "Note that consensus can only work among reasonable editors who make a good faith effort to work together to accurately and appropriately describe the different views on the subject." There is no deadline, so you can take the time to try to build a real consensus and convince those who disagree instead of trying to steamroll them.

SeizureDog raises a good point in that a more focused discussion is needed, as some characters are more likely to be Wikipedia:Notable than others; from what I've seen, the same thing happens at WP:AfD when a large number of articles are grouped together, and the decision is often to relist the articles in more focused chunks. This should not be dismissed out of hand. Perhaps consensus can be easily reached on a merge for specific minor characters, leaving the ones that are more likely to be sourceable for people to try to do so.

Even if an article is currently unsourced, that does not automatically mean that sources do not exist, and that does not mean that sources need to be added right now. The issue of sourcing and Wikipedia:Notability has been raised, and as has been said the only appropriate response is to go out and find sources. Don't waste time arguing over whether any character is wikt:notable or not, and don't waste time arguing that sources cannot be found until the search has actually been attempted (or until a more than reasonable amount of time passes where no one even tries). Yes, those of you who want to keep the articles, this means you. It's not up to TTN, Miremare, or anyone else to do it for you. Anomie⚔ 04:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Did I ever say that I wasn't going to give them time? As I stated, this will be open until a general understanding is established. My approach is pessimistic, but given the facts that these are part of a very, very large problem that is always addressed with the same response by the fans ("All we have to do is source them!" *Three weeks later* "Sources are out there! Give us more time!" being just one of them), I think you should be able to see why. TTN (talk) 14:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm making a list of characters that have out of universe information for reference. Angel, May Lee. Wow.. that's not as much as I thought it would be. Just to let everyone know, there are a couple of other characters that have one point in the trivia section that could be cited for out of universe information, but those two articles are the only ones with actual sections on character development. Zemalia 14:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I object to TTN's proposal on merging articles. It has happened on many sectors of Wikipedia. That practice has gone out of hand. TTN is an outright deletionist and a pessimist, and has prior controversial deeds on Wikipedia. It is not right to be a pessimist. We need to search for out-of-universe information on as many characters as we can. There is also the Wikia Annex. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 04:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

If anything's "out of hand" it's articles like these, and way out of hand at that. It is unfair to portray anyone who is trying to merge a bunch of unencyclopedic articles as somehow "bad". We are trying to build an encyclopedia here, and that goal is being hindered, not helped, by endless articles that have no place in an encyclopedia. Miremare 14:18, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Many of those articles are not what you call "out of hand." It IS fair to portray someone who is too strict about considering what is encyclopedic or unencyclopedic as somehow bad. Those articles can have a place in an encyclopedia, if they are likely to be sourceable. Out-of-universe information can be obtained when you do a search engine or import interviews or documentaries. The minor King of Fighters characters, which are those who are original to the King of Fighters series and appeared in only a few games in the series, are to be merged into lists. They would be listed according to each King of Fighters saga, which are the Rugal/Orochi saga, the NESTs saga, and the Ash Crimson saga. The articles on characters who are not original to the King of Fighters series and who appeared in most King of Fighters games should not be merged. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando (talk) 02:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't referring to any individual article, but to the articles as a whole, and indeed all articles like these as "out of hand". And no, it isn't fair to portray someone who is "too strict" about this as bad. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a repository for non-notable fiction, as confirmed by all our relevant policies and guidelines. Pick up a paper encyclopedia, such as one of the 32 volumes of Encyclopaedia Britannica, and you won't find a single article like these, and not because of WP:PAPER, but because they are simply not suitable for an encyclopedia. Miremare 16:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I object to merging some of the articles, like those on Kyokugenryu practitioners and on major Fatal Fury characters. I have just edited the article on Yuri Sakazaki by taking the Trivia section and integrated some of the entries in the section into an Appearances section. I am researching for more out-of-universe information on Yuri Sakazaki. The Fighting Style section contains out-of-universe information. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando (talk) 05:08, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I definitely agree with consolidating these entries into a single list - exempting a couple of the more notable characters (the Bogards, Mai and her assets, and probably Kyo). That said - is there any GFDL-compatible Wiki (similar to the TV Wiki) that this stuff can be trans-wiki'd to? It's neat information to have somewhere, even though Wikipedia is most definitely not the place. I'm aware of the shoryuken wiki, but it's more focused on strategy (and spam. Lots of spam). --Badger Drink (talk) 00:20, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

No, no, I object to consolidating entries like Kyokugenryu practitioners (which are the Sakazakis and Robert Garcia). I also object to merging the entries into a single list, because it would either too long and/or too concise. The list would have to be split by saga, which would include Rugal/Orochi saga, NESTS saga, and Ash Crimson saga. There is no GFDL-compatible Wiki that could be used as the place for KoF fighter entries. I feel like Wikipedia is turning to an eyesore for SNK fans as well as Nintendo fans. Do not merge the following: Ryo Sakazaki, Yuri Sakazaki, Takuma Sakazaki, Robert Garcia, Terry Bogard, Andy Bogard, Ryuji Yamazaki, Mai Shiranui, Geese Howard, Athena Asamiya, Kyo Kusanagi, and Rugal Bernstein. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando (talk) 00:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

What about Iori Yagami?Dark Rain

Articles ready to be considered for merging

I'm going to start adding articles that I believe are ready for the merger and I think have little or no out of universe information and have been cleaned up (trivia removed, copy-edit, etc). These articles of course will not be merged until a consensus has been reached. Please comment and provide opinions so these mergers can be put through swiftly and without hassle.

• Elisabeth (The King of Fighters): There is no out of universe information listed in this article to let it stand alone; it belongs in the list format. Its been cleaned up and I feel its ready for merger. Zemalia (talk) 00:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

We should decide on the general method of the merging or this could take an age. Using the above Elisabeth (The King of Fighters) as an example, and considering there's little out-of-universe info, what from there needs to be included in this list? Miremare 18:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I trimmed it down to the necessary information to understand the character. Though, it was rather lacking in context, so I have no idea what it's talking about. TTN (talk) 19:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I think this is a great model to use for the rest of the characters. If there are any characters with notability, we should perhaps keep a little more information about them than this though. Otherwise, I feel the rest is up to the editors who want to focus on improving the content of the article. Zemalia (talk) 19:24, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

• Malin (The King of Fighters): One citation that can be put in, should the reference be found. This article has notability suitable for a list format and has been cleaned up for the merger. Zemalia 14:50, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok you guys must be kidding me. Take a look at the StreetFighter characters. Has it been suggested that those articles be consolidated as well? Terry has as much history, if not more, as Capcom's Ryu. In fact, Terry has been the symbol of SNK's fighting games since the first Fatal Fury game. How about you SF fanboys stop trying to water down SNK's franchise. TKG

If there are Street Fighter articles that require cleaning up or merging, I'm sure that someone will get around to it sooner or later. Consider dropping a request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Cleanup if you want it to be sooner. And FYI, Terry Bogard probably has sufficient notability to warrant a separate article. Miremare 19:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

What is the point of taking out the easy to find articles and making a long list with less info. This sounds like a bunch of editors throwing their weight around more than anything.72.154.141.197 (talk) 20:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Merging of some character listings

I wanted to mention that Glaugan should be merged with Zero given that there is not a lot of information regarding it (the info given is pretty much all that was ever known and/or released by SNK). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koho7 (talk • contribs) 09:28, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, please do so. He's Zero's pet for one, plus his article is FAR TOO SHORT to stand on its own. -- ZeroGiga Contact 00:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Format of the articles

Since many articles are in the process of being re-written, I suggest that there be a format of some sort to follow for each character. I was thinking that articles should be fitted to look more like May Lee rather than someone like Brian Battler. The only personal qualm I have with May Lee's article is the placement of "development" it seems slightly out of place beneath "gameplay", though this can be easily fixed by moving it up underneath the opening paragraph. I know there are several mooks, interviews from Tokyo Game Shows, and other development listed by creators floating around the net somewhere so it's more of an effort of just placing it all down in cohesive matter.

I think by doing this, it'll be easier for all editors to 1) edit with an template of sorts for each character, 2) find and easily implement references for any development found for the said character (whether it be from the game they originated or KOF), as well as make a clearer indication of who needs more references 3) lessen confusion for other editors not familiar with SNK games in general, and 4) make it easier for editors to see who belongs in the list rather than have their own article. Doing so will also help crossover characters from other games -like Ryo, Terry, Ralf and Clark- look more organized and out-of-universe beefy. Sake neko (talk) 11:52, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

This page is still too huge

Split the NESTS specific bosses and such into a different article, as well as put Angel and K9999 over there, to try and cut down on some size. The Orochi Saga characters can probably be split off too, as many of them ended up one shots in the series. Gonna give that a go, see how it pans out--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Adelheid

Was Adelheid ever officially listed as being named "Adelheid _Bernstein_"? I realize he's most probably Rugal's son, but even so, that wouldn't necessarily mean he's named "Bernstein"... What's the source? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 17:23, 4 March 2008 (UTC

• His japanese backstory confirms it (like Shion's confirmed he's a he despite the looks). Said bio also showed he and Heidern, despite Rugal being Adel's father, do have some sort of friendship. There's a translation of all of it available online.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:28, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I'm not saying he's not Rugal's son. It's not flat out _confirmed_, but like you said... I'm talking about him being named "Bernstein". What's the source? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 17:53, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Offical bios for the characters from SNK.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:07, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I checked the official sites for both games he appeared in, and he's just called "Adelheid". Could you be more precise? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 18:20, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, just found it. It was actually in his "The King of Fighters XI" story. Heidern calls him "Adelheid Bernstein", indeed. Thanks. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 18:28, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Some name spellings...

Shouldn't it be "Branctorche"? I mean, maybe they were going for "blanc"/"white", indeed, but...? Also, that's admittedly pretty obscure stuff, but do we have an official source for the name spelling of Leona's biological father ("Gaideru" in kana)? I've seen "Guidel" in the article, and I believe I came across "Gaidel" a couple of times... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 16:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there's any online sources for Leona's father but on the '96 drama cd he's mentioned. The different takes on his name is due to the pronunciation of it and different takes on romanization. His name looks like this ->ガイデル in Japanese. "Gaidel" is the more literal translation though "Guidel" would also be an acceptable translation. For a comparison, no one really calls Guile "Gairu" in English even though his name looks like this ->ガイル in Japanese. Does that help a bit? Sake neko (talk) 01:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

If we don't have any official romanization (so his name is never mentioned during the games? I don't remember), the most literal one would actually be the revised Hepburn "Gaideru", right? I guess we could also use the spelling from its inspiration in Uchū Senkan Yamato (since that's where his name, as well as those of Rugal, Heidern and Goenitz come from), i.e. "Geider" (if Wikipedia is to be believed)... but that would be a mere assumption, and I believe Wikipedia favors the Hepburn romanization, when in doubt... As for Guile... Well, if we didn't have an official alphabet spelling for Guile's name, it would be the same problem... but we do, so... ^_^; 88.161.129.43 (talk) 02:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It's written Gaidell on the KOF 10th Anniversary website: [1]. Curiously Yamazaki's page is the only page on the site which mentions it. FightingStreet (talk) 15:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Nice find, thank you! Well, unless we have another official spelling, I guess we should go with that one, then? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 17:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. FightingStreet (talk) 18:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! :) Sake neko (talk) 02:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Move Maki Kagura over to the Orochi saga chars sublist?

She does only appear in both related arcs and not outside of them, and it'd cut down some more on the page size here at least. Thoughts?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Go for it. She's only really been in one game and that was only an illusion of her. Sake neko (talk) 06:00, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. Went ahead and moved Chizuru over there too, given her only appearances in the series have been tied directly to the whole Orochi afair and nada more.

Btw while I'm here, might recommend going through the articles here and nixing the Game Series part of the templates. It'll cut down on their size given that bit takes up several lines no matter what, and it's redundant given where these sub-articles are.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 06:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Gameplay mentions

Most of these characters need something that mentions how the characters play during fights -since they do come from a fighting genre after all. As far as I can tell: Adel, Momoko, Shingo, and Leona are pretty much it. The other characters are either too brief or they don't even include it at all. My knowledge on this area is admittedly poor so to those who know how these characters: please contribute. Sake neko (talk) 09:10, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, does anyone know where the rest of those official comics are for KOF 2003? Do they have anything relevant to add to the characters featured? Sake neko (talk) 08:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

First appearances

I have yet to find any kind of real confirmation for Heidern debuting in "Ikari III". Any pointers? I'm beginning to think it's internet lore. Also, according to this page: http://www.kaede.sakura.ne.jp/~coronas/snk/data/m.htm , Maxima isn't really the same "guy" from "Robo Army". They had planned a "Robo Army Team", but that didn't work out, and they only kept the name "Maxima". So it looks like they're two different characters sharing the same name, in the end. Finally, I'm pretty sure Ralf first appeared in "T.A.N.K." (aka "T.N.K. III"), not in "Ikari" (but "Ikari" was indeed Clark's first game)... Thing is, I really don't know how to source that one. Any idea? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 14:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess we should just play the games and take a screenshot? Sake neko (talk) 09:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

You mean, for Ralf? Thing is, with the game being so old, I suspect much of the story will be found in the manual, not the game itself... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 21:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually I was talking about either one of them but you're right. Both the games are little old now... Sake neko (talk) 23:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

"Sally"

"Sally" was Whip's codename before she was introduced to Ralf and Clark and joined the Ikari Team. Nothing to do with her real name ("Sēra", however you spell that in alphabet). Here's the '99 Ikari Team story: http://yyuio89.secret.jp/kof/99story4.html (not an official link, sorry... 'not sure they posted it on their site anyway, actually). 88.161.129.43 (talk) 14:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I knew that Sally note in Card Fighters DS sounded fishy. Good catch! As for the referencing part, that's easily taken care of since it's on the Japanese official site here: http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/history/kof99_story/index.php?num=ikari . I'll go edit that footnote about her name then. Sake neko (talk) 08:52, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Any of these that can be split back off into separate articles?

Notably any that could stand with appearance info and design notes if possible (which in all honesty might be difficult given there isn't as much info available in that regards as SF chars do). Vice and Mature might work as a possibility for a joint article, as at the very least you could play into the whole CvS factor of their gameplay. Adelheid I know has some early sketches of himself around and SNK used a lot of room in the game up for his 2k3 music. Any thoughts on other possible candidates that could get sliced off from here?

Btw, you two (Sake Neko and the mysterious fellow behind the IP) have done an amazing job with this page.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 06:04, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the complements on the article! As for your inquiry, I agree with your ideas since the article's getting longer with every new edit. For separate article candidates, I suggest narrowing it down to something concerning Kula and her team. As much as I love them, Diana and Candy hardly appear anywhere else in the series by themselves. They're nearly attached to Kula's hip so I wouldn't be too upset if that happened. Foxy's section can stay in the article with a brief blurb of her involvement with Kula in the possible aforementioned article. Heideren or K' could be candidates too since I found a couple more lines of development for both of them and adding them now would only make the article load slower. I've got a couple more in mind but my brain's fried at the moment. Maybe we should wait for more consensus, eh? Sake neko (talk) 12:09, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

May Lee

I have nothing against May Lee, but I'm curious to know why she gets her own article when so many other characters, who are in more games or more important to the story, are stuck in this giant compilation :/ TalonIH (talk) 20:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Because hers ended up referenced well enough and was a good article for some time, could be tidied up to easily get it back. Answer your question?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 22:00, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

About Magaki and co.

I'm slightly confused on what the name of their group should be for wikipedia because it's named differently in Japanese and English -and other languages I hear. So which name should we use for their group? I'm just bothered by the inconsistencies... Sake neko (talk) 03:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I would use the English name... but then again, maybe there are several official English names for this group (heck, they're not even that consistent in Japanese)? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 11:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Where is Lien Neville

What the? I'm redirected from Lien Neville to this page, where there is absolutely no information on the character. Her name isn't even mentioned once.--76.170.109.79 (talk) 04:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

She is in the Maximum impact character list I think the redirect needs to be fixed.Tintor2 (talk) 12:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Ditto Lucky Glauber, and I'd bet his team-mates as well. 208.66.39.94 (talk) 08:04, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

KOF EX Characters

Why isn't there even a short paragraph for the EX series characters? The MI characters get their own page but the EX characters don't have anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mgbenz (talk • contribs) 02:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree that they should be mentioned, but not in there own page like the other KoF guys. There's like what, six of em? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.24.119.11 (talk) 15:50, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Maxima batou

Is there no mention that the maxima character bears strong similarities to batou from ghost in the shell? both cyborg, both large in stature, both with computational analysis abilities. Ghost in the shell became very popular a few years before maxima with the film in 1995. Also, there is an interplay between the two characters, as in a later film, ghost in the shell innocence, batou gains a gun in his arm, much like maxima.Betaben (talk) 13:55, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

A reliable source confirming that?Tintor2 (talk) 15:25, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Merge (2010 Edition)

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. I have a bone to pick with you.

This is Wikipedia. Just because it's "the free encyclopedia" doesn't mean it has to have every little bit of information about every single thing in existence. And yet, I see articles like Kyo Kusanagi or Iori Yagami that are massive, bloated, and detail every little bit of history about them despite the fact there are other, more appropriate places for video game character information. Given that articles such as Simon Belmont or Bass (Mega Man) have been merged into larger articles with less information about them, I propose...again...a merging of all the existing The King of Fighters character pages into this article. This merge affects the following pages: Iori Yagami, K', Kyo Kusanagi, Rugal Bernstein, Billy Kane, Blue Mary, Geese Howard, Joe Higashi, Kim Kaphwan, Mai Shiranui, Rock Howard, Ryuji Yamazaki, Terry Bogard, Robert Garcia (Art of Fighting), Ryo Sakazaki, Yuri Sakazaki, Clark Still, Ralf Jones, and Athena Asamiya.

I could throw a lot of "terms of service" jargon and "rules and regulations" gobbledegook at you folks, but why bother? The fact of the matter remains that Wikipedia is being choked to death by garbage articles like the aforementioned when a brief history or paragraph works just as well in most cases. Wikipedia simply does not need so much information about things that have such little relevance in the real world, especially in cases where there are much more relevant places to find such information. If you folks desperately need information about Iori Yagami or Billy Kane, might I suggest The King of Fighters Wiki or perhaps the SNK Wiki? Not enough info in those places? Request more. Have info you'd like to contribute? Add to them.

Thank you for your time. ~ Josephine Lithius (Info|Chat|Edits) 11:30, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

First of all, if Terry, Ryo and other characters are to be merged, they should be merged to their own respective character lists. Second of all, all these characters pass notability, allowing them to have their own article unlike Bass and Belmont who didn't pass it.Tintor2 (talk) 15:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

These articles have individual pages because they have established notability. If you think they are "massive, bloated, and detail every little bit of history" then trim what you think is excessive. Content should help the reader understand the character, which sometimes requires telling a bit of what they have done. These pages will not be merged though. They have Reception sections that allow them to have a separate page. Other pages you mentioned that have been merged did not have reception that passed Notablity requirements. Just to clarify... You will not get these pages merged. There is nothing wrong with them. You are going against guidelines. _Blake ^{(Talk·Edits)} 15:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

As it turns out, it's the fault of the people who wrote these articles enough to make them into good articles that Bass and other articles got merged. I'm gonna guess that a GA is the exact opposite of a bad article. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 17:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I like the second sentence of this proposal: "I have a bone to pick with you". That, basically, is your entire rationale, because anyone who actually reads the articles you propose merging sees that they are well-written and certainly pass notability standards. Read WP:IDONTLIKEIT, then read it again, because that is what you are arguing from; you don't think these characters are important, so your opinion trumps guidelines. You operate from the view that video games and characters are insignificant to the real world; this is a dying view, as I find more and more serious academics publishing papers on them just as they would a purely literary figure. Here is just one example. In short, your base argument worldview itself is no longer academically accepted, not to mention the fact that your proposal ignores Wikipedia policy left and right. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 22:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

These articles are perfectly well referenced and deserve a spot in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not paper and though I'm a deletionist, if the article is notable, it might as well be in the encyclopedia, and it's your opinion whether something is garbage. Now, I wouldn't go up to the George W. Bush article and say that it should be deleted because it's a "garbage article" and he has no more relevance.--_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 00:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Alright, listen. If this is an all-topic encyclopedia on the Internet, then it should cover all topics as broadly as possible. While I admit it comes off as me crying because certain characters don't have their own articles, it's actually more than that. I genuinely feel that one of two things should happen:

• All characters from all games, movies, literature, etc. should have their own individual article.
• No characters from any fictional material should have their own individual article.

It's as simple as that. I personally don't see the point in all these characters having their own articles if they're not all that relivant outside of their games, but if you're going to have articles for each individual character with such detail as to mention the last time they passed wind, why not give each individual character of every single game in existence their own article? I mean, that comes off as being a little elitist to me if you have 34 KB on someone like Terry Bogard, but not a single word on someone like Marco Rossi (notice the redirect), despite the fact Marco has been in a few games outside his series as well as almost all the games within the Metal Slug series. To summarize, "Go big or go home".

Other than that, TTN up there had the same reasons I did for wanting these articles merged. That was about three years ago. I was hoping that something had changed in that time. Clearly, it has not. ~ Josephine Lithius (Info|Chat|Edits) 10:48, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

That's spitting in the face of WP:NOTE. It has nothing to do with how many other games a character has been in, but how many outside sources have commented on the character. Cheers! Scapler (talk) 11:19, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

To be blunt Joseph, that logic is stupid. Wikipedia isn't "all or nothing". We don't cover every game ever released for example: does this mean that every single one shouldn't have an article? No, of course not, nobody in their right mind would suggest that. So why do the same with fictional characters?

It's not their "innate importance" in the end, nor is it the number of people commenting on them, though that's a contributing factor. What is important? The significance of what's being said, and the weight that has. If the character can demonstrate that then they should have every right to have an article on Wikipedia.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 12:46, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Your reasons for wanting a merge and TTN's are completely different, in any case. TTN's concern was a lack of real-world information in articles, with them being full of unreferenced original research and trivia, thus failing at guidelines such as WP:N and WP:WAF. Yours is this impractical idea of "everything or nothing", an approach which even TTN would disagree with—you would get rid of all characters from any media? Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, Faramir, would those have to be removed too? Ultimately, TTN's concerns from three years ago were addressed. Lets take one case example: compare the version TTN wanted to merge with the current version. There is a stark difference in tone, detail and content, the current version satisfying guidelines for inclusion and approach to writing on fiction. -- Sabre (talk) 14:13, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

• Cool story bro, but no. (Also the word "Wikipedia" is actually not written in italics. and hey, you want to do something actually good? Go and delete Christy Landers.) --82.160.239.145 (talk) 23:55, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Results

Movement denied! A little over a week has passed and, to put it crudely, "I got pwned." The votes are largely (almost unanimously) against the merge. But hey! I tried. Better to try and fail than fail to try, I say. XD Thanks for your patience, folks. I'll be cleaning up my own mess now. See you next time! ~ Josephine Lithius (Info|Chat|Edits) 06:19, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Yuki (Kyo Kusanagi's girlfriend)

I think Yuki should be moved to the List of minor SNK characters article. Wikipedia knows nothing about her. 68.205.83.35 (talk) 01:50, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

That article does not exist. Besides, she barely appears in KOF and is not playable. She is already mentioned in Kyo's article.Tintor2 (talk) 11:53, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

What if Kyo's article gets merged with this article? BTW, I know the List of minor SNK characters article doesn't exist, but I requested it. 68.205.83.35 (talk) 20:26, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Kyo's article passes WP:Notability so it does not need any merge. A list of minor SNK characters sounds kind of uncyclopedic as, as the title says, they aren't notable and may be more suitable for the SNK Wikia.Tintor2 (talk) 20:43, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

There are many minor characters created by SNK (e.g. Billy Kane's sister Lily) and a list of minor SNK characters sounds encyclopedic. By deleting many articles about anime, manga, and video game characters on Wikipedia, this website has become more useless, and less is known about those characters. I think this article should list complete information on each individual character exclusive to the KOF series, not just the teams. 68.205.83.35 (talk) 00:02, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Not really as Billy's sister is actually a playable character in a game and she can be mentioned in such article. Besides just saying they are minor but deserve to have their own articles sounds like WP:Fancruft. The reason why this list is divided by teams, bossses, and others is due to WP:Undue Weight as having a very big page will make it slow to show for people reading articles.Tintor2 (talk) 02:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I've got a brilliant idea. Let's separate this article into multiple articles listing characters in ABC order (e.g. A-C). This will list complete information on each original and individual character in the KOF series. 68.205.83.35 (talk) 00:12, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that would pass WP:Notability and it would be deleted.Tintor2 (talk) 00:14, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Then how is there going to be complete information on each character on Wikipedia other than each article's revision history? If there isn't, then most of the information on each character will be forgotten, especially for minor characters and when the redirect pages for each character gets deleted. This is the reason Wikipedia is so stinking useless and inconvenient. 68.205.83.35 (talk) 03:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Again, as the name says "minor character" are unnotable to the series (and thus general readers) and any info regarding them can be moved to their respective games or related characters (for example Yuki is mentioned in Kyo's article and in the SNK crossover for the GameBoy). Wikipedia is not a fansite where every single character of a franchise can have its article. I suggest you to have a look at the SNK wikia where every single character of the SNK games have a game.Tintor2 (talk) 15:22, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

A mention of Yuki in Kyo's article is not enough information. BTW, I know Wikipedia is not a fansite. I do not think it matters how much notability any fictional character needs to have his or her own article on Wikipedia. Redirecting their articles to lists is a completely stupid idea. I really wish Wikipedia would bring back articles on fictional characters that are already redirected to their respective lists. 68.205.83.35 (talk) 01:46, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

That would really go against guidelines and make it look like a fansite.Tintor2 (talk) 15:38, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it would. 68.205.83.35 (talk) 20:30, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

You just seems to be ignoring wp:notability and wp:fancruft.Tintor2 (talk) 20:59, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion: character table

As noted above, this article is too long. How about taking the design from Street_Fighter#Characters? That article gets 6-10 times as many visits as this one. This style has since been copied by Tekken, and I think Virtua Fighter are about to do it.

Character	94	95	96	97	98	99	2000	2001	2002	2003	XI	XII	XIII
Japan Team	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Fatal Fury Team	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No	No	No
Garou Team	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	No	No
Art of Fighting Team	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Women Fighters Team	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No	Yes
Psycho Soldier Team	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Ikari Team	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Korea Team	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	Yes	Yes
Geese Howard's teams	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No
American Sports Team	Yes	No	No	No	Yes	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No
NESTS Team	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Ash Crimson	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Chizuru Kagura	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Duo Lon	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Eiji Kisaragi	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Elisabeth Blanctorche	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
K'	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Kula Diamond	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Iori Yagami	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Lin	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Malin	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Vice & Mature	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Maxima	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Oswald	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
Ramon	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Saisyu Kusanagi	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Seth	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Shen Woo	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Vanessa	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Rugal Bernstein	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Adelheid and Rose	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Hakkesshu	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
New Faces Team	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Goenitz	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	No
Krizalid	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Zero	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Igniz	No	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Ron	No	No	No	No	No	No	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes

There are probably mistakes and omissions above, but could somebody complete?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.22.120 (talk • contribs) 01:07, 31 August 2010

That's a lot of WP:Undue Weight and thus, unsuitable for wikipedia. Street Fighter is not an example to follow. The article will just get bigger.Tintor2 (talk) 01:36, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Copy edit

I performed a copy edit on this page, as requested by the tags, as part of the Guild of Copy Editor's September 2010 backlog elimination drive. // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 21:02, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Nice work.Tintor2 (talk) 21:14, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Reorganize the article?

Considering how many changes there have been in the series' teams, I wonder if we should reorganize the article into "Introduced in The King of Fighters '94", "Introduced in The King of Fighters '95", etc. What do you think? Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 17:18, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

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Reorganizing

Considering in the latest games a lot of characters changed teams, wouldn't it be better if this article be reorganized at least in the original characters? For example, rather than have Japan Team section we could give Shingo, Benimaru and Goro their own sections. The cast of Fatal Fury, AOF and the rest could keep being the same since they already have their own articles.Tintor2 (talk) 22:57, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Undue weight

The character table seems to add a lot of unnecessary weight to the list and might make navigation for general edits complicated. Is it really necessary to have it? If we need more confirmation that a character like K' or Mai Shiranui only not appear in XII, maybe that's just worth mentioning in their own sections. Even tv tropes tries to avoid that.Tintor2 (talk) 20:26, 12 October 2024 (UTC)