User talk:Miranche

Welcome to the Wikipedia

Here are some links I thought useful:

Feel free to contact me personally with any questions you might have. The Wikipedia:Village pump is also a good place to go for quick answers to general questions. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~~~~.

Be Bold!

Sam [Spade] 13:03, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Was the Cetina-Una border of Croats and Serbs in the early Medieval Ages? HolyRomanEmperor 16:18, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Is that line generally accepted in Croatia? Also, you should know that they had some Croats living eastern closer to the Drina river; and you have Serbs living in-betweens of Vrbas and Una. Some source (I think a little too overrexaggerated) state that Serbs also lived across Una... But these were all in minority... HolyRomanEmperor 00:20, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Is that line generally accepted in Croatia? Also, you should know that they had some Croats living eastern closer to the Drina river; and you have Serbs living in-betweens of Vrbas and Una. Some sources (I think a little too overrexaggerated) state that Serbs also lived across Una... But these were all in minority... HolyRomanEmperor 00:20, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ma, sve su ti to Hrbi i Srvati :)) ako razumiješ što hoću reći... HolyRomanEmperor 11:58, 6 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

First off, there is no such thing as a Montenegrin language :) Second off, it isn't sporazumijevat. It is sporazumijevati :)) HolyRomanEmperor 22:18, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest that you change it? No? (that i) and add latin fro Serbian and cyrilic for "Montenegrin". P. S. in fact, we've got Istar Croato-Italian Dalmatian dialect :))) HolyRomanEmperor 13:17, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest that you change it? No? (that i) and add latin fro Serbian and cyrilic for "Montenegrin". P. S. in fact, we've got Istar Croato-Italian Dalmatian dialect :))) HolyRomanEmperor 13:20, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

May I comment that you are amongst the rare wikipedians with the largest quantity of sanity on the Internet? :) HolyRomanEmperor 21:33, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I jos da te zamolim...

... da dodas templejt GNU kod sebe :) (koji sam upravo napravio) --millosh (talk (sr:)) 03:20, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:Traj73004_helio_ecldto_52005.jpg

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Glas

Trebaju mi glasovi pa ako bi mogo glasati ovdje[[1]] i ovdje[[2]]. Unaprijed ti zahvaljujem. Pozdrav!Luka Jačov 15:55, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Glasanje još traje za ovo [[3]] a gusto je pa bi te zamolio da glasaš. Unaprijed ti zahvaljujem. Pozdrav! Luka Jačov 10:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Visit

Hello Miranche & everybody at the Wikipedia Networks Team!

I've read your paper and also the one with Indiana University. I find them really interesting and in-line with what I would like to do. Besides wanting to say hello, I was also wondering if we could make a meeting - in person (I still long for those, specially in these digital days). I will be coming to Zagreb in December 2006, so it would be perfect to meet then.

Best, Vulpeto 09:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ej, pa ti si ziv? :)

Sad bas pogledah svoju watchlistu i ustanovih da si ipak medju zivima... Koji ti je mail aktivan sada? Cuo sam da si otisa u SAD. --millosh (talk (sr:)) 09:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bunyev language

Why don't you add the Bunyev language - [Template:User bu] - it know exists. --PaxEquilibrium 19:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WW2 chronology

Your message copied for continuity:

Hello! It seems that my weekend additions to the World War II article triggered the move of the "Military Chronology" section to the Timeline of World War II article. However, it seems to me that this article is now huge and difficult to navigate. Also, the content (synopsis vs day-by-day timeline) is qualitatively different. Do you think it would make sense to split this in two articles, the timeline as it used to be, and "Military Chronology of World War II" to contain the more descriptive parts? -- Miranche 20:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi there. :) ~~I'm not sure what additions you made over the weekend.~~ *looked at article history* Oh, those. No, it wasn't your edits (those were co-incidental), it was the cumulative additions over the last (probably) year or so. I don't know how long the chronology section has been growing, but it just seemd like it should be it's own page. The Timeline of World War II shouldn't've been started, since it's just a list. In fact, the interwiki WW2 timeline articles are actually titled chronologies, so I'd recommend making timeline redirect to chronology (are there any reasons not to do this? it should probably be a WP:MOVE, for the history's sake).

I agree with you on the navigatibility. I think the more generally titled World War II article shouldn't have the same level of detail as Chronology of World War II should. I expect the evolution of the chronology article will see the reduction of the timeline sections (or a grouping of timeline events by area, and insertion immediately after each chrono section heading, or something like that, maybe), and an increase in chronological prose, which was already really big before moving it out of WW2. I expect there's a group of editors who maintained the timeline, before I nosed in; they're probably not happy. Xaxafrad 22:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(meh with continuity ;)

In that case, I'll take the chronology article and just remove the redirect. Xaxafrad 23:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Croatian Academy of Sciences and Arts

Thanks for the detailed explanation! My logic was that "Yugoslav" is used solely to refer to the country, whereas "South Slavic" refers to the peoples. I'm not convinced that the ideology of Yugoslavism firmly did not include the Bulgarians (at least Bulgarians, such as Lyuben Karavelov if I remember correctly, were certainly part of the related movement for South Slavic unity), and some Bulgarian academicians have also attended it or taught at it (e.g. Lyubomir Miletich), so I thought Bulgarians were also to be included. Indeed, a footnote may be of use.

P.S. The distinction between Yugoslav (jugoslavski) and South Slavic (južnoslavjanski) exists in Bulgarian too. Todor →Bozhinov 17:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Djeca nose ranjenika"

I don't know what do you mean by "satisfactory" - you want to say that, just because it is from former Yugoslavia, it can't be copyrighted? As I remember, Yugoslavia signed the Bern Convention, so it honored copyrights. As for POV of the said picture, I am not even slightly interested in judging that - my only concern is the copyright status of the image. I won't go edit war around the copyright tag, but I do believe yo are wrong, and will ask around further. --Branislav Jovanovic 07:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yugoslavia was a member of Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works - you can see for yourself on the WIPO Bern entry for Serbia, where Yugoslavia is listed as the predecessor. So, Yugoslavia had to honor the copyright as any other member state. Hence, image is copyrighted. And the fact that it can be found at multiple sources means nothing if you can't find a waiver of copyright or some other proof it passed into public domain.

As for your other points:

this image was not marked as under fair use, so in this case, it does not matter. And even if it did, without proper source and copyright attribution, you can't claim fair use.
the pragmatic way in this kind of cases isn't "let's pretend its public domain" - that would be the most irresponsible way; that is not only against Wikipedia policies, but against one of the basic principles of Wikipedia. --Branislav Jovanovic 18:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For future reference, the issue with images like these is not the copyright status. The image may very well be in the public domain. However, even if it is in the public domain, that is not a reason to removed {{nsd}}. Public domain or not, the image needs to be sourced so we can verify its copyright status. ShadowHalo 20:57, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Internationale in Bengali

I have started this page: The Internationale in Indian Languages.I am trying to find out the history behind this translation and also the other Indian translations. Srijon 05:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

License tagging for Image:Irreligion statistics by country.png

Thanks for uploading Image:Irreligion statistics by country.png. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information; to add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia.

For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot 16:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Internationale in various languages

As the user who added Chinese lyrics with encyclopedic info to The Internationale, this is to let you know that The Internationale in Indian Languages has a proposed merger in case you have not seen my reply to what you posted at Talk:The Internationale. I cannot split the Chinese lyrics into a separate article until The Internationale in Indian Languages has its merger case settled. If merged, then I do not start a separate article. If not merged, I will break away a new article called The Internationale in Chinese while I know three different sets of Chinese lyrics by three different authors.--Jusjih (talk) 03:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your reply. Perhaps we can keep the French (original), Russian (once a Soviet national anthem), and English (the language here) in the main article and suggest encyclopedic information on other language versions to be in separate articles. I have split the Chinese lyrics with encyclopedic information to The Internationale in Chinese.--Jusjih (talk) 02:42, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just found The Internationale in Indian Languages having been merged back into The Internationale. This is so awful while making a page too long. Perhaps we should be bold but not reckless to split excessive lyrics away. I will prepare to do so sometime soon. Even though I have identified The Internationale in Chinese as the national anthem of the Chinese Soviet Republic, I prefer not to merge the page back. Up next, I may want to prepare a new article at Wikibooks to teach the history of The Internationale with a time line.--Jusjih (talk) 02:55, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just started writing about The Internationale on Wikibooks, but I am still very new writing there. b:The Internationale/Timeline is what I try as an experiment. I am preparing an index of authors and their works next. You are of course welcome to help whatever you can.--Jusjih (talk) 01:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Pljuni i zapjevaj moja Jugoslavijo.jpg

Thank you for uploading Image:Pljuni i zapjevaj moja Jugoslavijo.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this image under "fair use" may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the image description page and add or clarify the reason why the image qualifies for fair use. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a fair use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for images used under the fair use policy require both a copyright tag and a fair use rationale.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it might be deleted by adminstrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 15:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We need a source for this map

Miranche,

An editor on the talk page of Irreligion has brought up the fact that we have no source (or the source is not apparent) for the data in the following map that you uploaded. Can you please tell us what the source of the data is so we can add it to the map description. Thanks kindly.PelleSmith (talk) 11:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A great solution

Just congratulating you for your suggestion to Daniel the duck of creating the changes he wanted for his project in his sandbox. This seems like a much better solution to endless reverts and user warnings. In summary, I wish I'd thought of that. Well done. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Marconi

Possibly, although the user only made two edits, one to the template and one to his/her talk page. I nearly blocked the user, but decided a warning was better; it is possibly a new user who stumbled on the page by accident, and edited it without intent to cause the damage. If ze tries something else, I will block. Thanks for letting me know about the problem. --TeaDrinker (talk) 00:57, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Flag of Ukraine

Ukraine (Western part) was for a long time part of Austrian Empire and story tells that flag of independence movement of western part of Ukraine which was annexed by Soviet Union before WWII was adopted based on flag of Dalmatia nonexistent by that time but very much respected by many members of movement. Birth of contemporary independent Ukraine in 1990 came to Kiev from western part of country ( Galitsia) and with it the old flag was brought and found its place in Constitution. Population of Central and Eastern part of Ukraine still have no idea how and why this flag came into existence and was selected to represent this nation to international community. Flag and coat of arms of contemporary Ukraine is of great importance to Ukrainians but its ambiguity and unclear roots tarnish it and brings a lot of heated discussions and animosity inside of society. Olaffpomona (talk) 19:55, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

re:Separating episodes in the plot of Sam & Max Save the World

Tell you what, I'm just going to undo my last revert, so we've got the version that's still all uninterupted prose, but doesn't have section headings: I suppose that was a decent mid-point, it should be fairly straightforward to readers that the paragraphs only cover one episode from the wording at the beginning of each paragraph. I'd rather keep specific episode title mentions out of that section, since its covered in the table, and otherwise slightly undermines the table's purpose. We've already told them before this point that the game ships in six episodes, we can assume that the average reader can put two-and-two together with the paragraph-an-episode structure.

However, a couple of points from your message: 1) Don't worry about what people who haven't played the game might think of the spoilers. If someone doesn't want to read spoilers, then they'd be rather stupid to read the section with "Plot" written in big bold letters at the top :). 2) It probably hasn't escaped your notice that Sam & Max Beyond Time and Space's article severely lacks in quality against Save the World's; the only reason that's still got episode articles is because we've not got around to cleaning that article up. They'll be gone the moment the main article is capable of covering everything in a similar manner to Save the World's article. 3) Its generally considered better not to use bold for emphasis in articles, beyond noting the article's subject in the intro; according to the Manual of Style, only italics should be used for that purpose. -- Sabre (talk) 21:54, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All I can say there is that Wikipedia articles aren't there just to regurgitate plot details, they must be focused on real-world information, and the episodes alone aren't capable of sustaining individual articles in that manner. There was a reasonably lengthy discussion on this awhile back on both the talk page and at the Wikiproject, which came down to incorporating the few bits of real-world information specific to individual episodes into the main article. As for the "cultural references" section, they aren't appropriate, since they fall under original research (or "I-played-the-game-and-noticed-someone-mentioned-this-film-I-liked") and trivia. Those episode articles were written by and for fans, not for the general reader Wikipedia is aimed at; we link to places such as the Sam & Max Wiki for if/when people who want that approach. -- Sabre (talk) 23:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Archives Journals

Hi, you created this article, but I am a bit unsure whether that is actually needed/justified. There are more journals called "Archives" than just these 9. Do you have any references (apart from the one publisher page you linked to) that refer to these journals as the "archives journals"? Thanks. --Crusio (talk) 09:14, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have reworked this as a "list" article, which seems more appropriate. --Crusio (talk) 19:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference

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Syrmian Front

Regarding your edit about the drafting of young Serbs, you really need to find a decent secondary source for this kind of controversial claim. Editorials from local newspapers will not be good enough and are unlikely to survive.Fainites ^barleyscribs 22:10, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As long as it's a suitable source.Fainites ^barleyscribs 12:43, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Wanda Sá

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A tag has been placed on Wanda Sá requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a band or musician, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Ikh007 (talk) 18:02, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note to self: deletion of images

(Excerpted from here and a bit expanded)

The statements on the tag {{AutoReplaceable fair use people}} to the effect that "Possible reasons for removing this tag include ..." and "If the image is determined to be replaceable...", sounded to me like there was room for discussion, so I put in a very real effort to present a reasonable case for inclusion. Only after I did so, and after my case has not, in my opinion, been addressed meaningfully at all, did I learn explicitly that "exemptions to WP:NFCC#1 are almost never made". And it seems that my experience is not unique. As I was awaiting the fate of my own upload, I looked at other cases of non-free images and noticed that practically all outside of the readily admissible categories (screenshots, covers etc) were being deleted in accordance to NFCC#1, even when the uploading user made a proactive effort to explain why NFCC#1 was satisfied. The two that caught my eye were [4], a scan of a diagram from an obscure Romanian archaeology dig, [5], a weird sports routine involving coal in Virginia. Both users presented reasons why a free equivalent was not available, and I think that one of them actually presented a rationale for every single point of WP:NFCC. No matter the merits of the two deletions, it did not look like the reasons the uploading users presented were meaningfully addressed. If this happens with any frequency at all, it seems to me very detrimental to the project.

I believe the process of handling non-free content could be improved so:

Easy & short term: state clearly, in bold letters, in WP:NFCC, and in the appropriate tags, that the exemptions to NFCC#1 are almost never made.
Harder & longer term: document people's practical experience on obtaining free content images, or if such a document already exists, link to it visibly. It would help a lot, and be much more encouraging to relatively casual editors such as myself, to get proactive info to the effect that "Your efforts to present a case for inclusion of non-free content are almost certainly in vain. If you want to make an effort, you should instead direct it toward obtaining a free equivalent. Here's how. If it's a living person, contact them directly. If it's a diagram, reproduce it in Inkscape. If you know who took the image, ask them to release it under a free license (and here's a form letter you can use). If it's a private event, ask for permission." etc. etc.
Elaborate on a standard of evidence for when a free equivalent isn't obtainable. What happens, for example, if a person actually went to the effort to contact all reasonably accessible individuals and entities who could provide a free equivalent, and received a negative answer from all of them?

Orphaned non-free image File:Zlatko Tomcic.png

⚠

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San Francisco meetup at WMF headquarters

Hi Miranche,

I just wanted to give you a heads-up about the next wiki-meetup happening in SF. It'll be located at our very own Wikimedia Foundation offices, and we'd love it if some local editors who are new to the meetup scene came and got some free lunch with us :) Please sign up on the meetup page if you're interested in attending, and I hope to see you soon! Maryana (WMF) (talk) 22:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

hatnote formatting

Please see WP:HATEXTRA, WP:NAMB. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 07:23, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! – Miranche^T C 19:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Croatian Interdisciplinary Society

The article Croatian Interdisciplinary Society has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Could not find significant coverage in secondary sources. No evidence of meeting the general notability threshold.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. GregorB (talk) 22:02, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is a simple prod, which means that there is no discussion, and everyone who disagrees for any reason is free to simply remove the prod banner, as explained above. Please do check about the notability. I might still decide to go for a regular deletion discussion, if you feel there are valid arguments for keeping the article. GregorB (talk) 13:25, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen the links but haven't taken a look at the content. I'll leave a comment in the article's talk page. GregorB (talk) 08:15, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're invited: Spacefest Edit-a-thon Honoring Sally Ride - Tucson, AZ

Women in Astronomy and Space Sciences Edit-a-thon - Tucson, AZ - You are invited!

Sally Ride was the first American woman in space and a champion of girls and women everywhere. Ride would have turned 62 on May 26th had the world not lost her to pancreatic cancer last July. To honor her enduring legacy, Arizonans and all attendees of SpaceFest are invited to gather on her birthday to edit and create Wikipedia entries on notable women in astronomy and the space sciences. Register to attend or sign up to participate remotely - visit this page to do either.
Girona7 (talk) 07:28, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Croatian help needed!

Hello Miranche, I'm contacting you because we need some Croatian translators to help with the deployment of the new VisualEditor on hr.wikipedia. There are help pages, user guides, and description pages that need translating, as well as the interface itself. The translating work is going on over on MediaWiki: Translation Central. I also need help with a personal message for the Croatian Wikipedians. If you are able to help in any way, either reply here, or head over to TranslationCentral. Thanks for your time, PEarley (WMF) (talk) 23:09, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

de:Wikipedia:Kurier

On Kurier (comparable to Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost) there are two articles about hr-Wikipedia, a smaller one in the right column (13.9.) and a larger one (written by me) in the left column (16.9.). The three chapters of the latter article are about quality problems of smaller Wikipedias in general, about Croatian nationalists pushing their point of view in the German Wikipedia, and about the rightist tendencies in the Croatian Wikipedia. Maybe you know people with knowledge of German who are interested in this and want to make comments on Kurier's discussion page? Greetings, Aspiriniks (talk) 11:55, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just a short comment on Croqs edit on your hr.WP discussion page. Of course, I am not at all Mrzitelj je svega Hrvatskog. As you can see on my user page de:Benutzer:Aspiriniks, I have created the articles about many important Croatian politicians, like de:Zoran Milanović and de:Vesna Pusić, and also about musician de:Ljerka Očić and scientist de:Stipan Jonjić, which both are important people, but are still missing in the hr.WP, as they seem not interesting enough for users who just want to push their political POVs. I also started articles on other people from the area of the former SFR Yugoslavia, and you can see I am strictly neutral in this, not prefering any side.

In the German language wikipedia (not only German, as also Austria and most of Switzerland are German speaking), we have the rule to have people categorized by state, not ethnicity. German speaking Swiss people normally would not claim to have a German ethnicity, neither a Swiss ethnicity. This rule we have concerning people from everywhere (with some small exceptions, which I would prefer to abolish), so we don't have categories like en:Category:African-American people by occupation, and also we categorize people from Yugoslavia as Yugoslavs, no matter what ethnicity they have. So for example architect de:Juraj Neidhardt is categorized "Jugoslawe", no matter that he was born in Zagreb, lived in Sarajevo, and has a name which sounds German. This rule in fact is just a special case of the rule, that categorizations must be according to objective criteria; citizenship is an objective criterium, while ethnicity is not. Croqs seems not to be able to accept such a rule.

You can of course ask me if you have any questions concerning my articles or the causes of edit wars with Croq. -- Aspiriniks (talk) 12:32, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Bradley Manning/October 2013 move request

Greetings. Because you participated in the August 2013 move request regarding this subject, you may be interested in participating in the current discussion. This notice is provided pursuant to Wikipedia:Canvassing#Appropriate notification. Cheers! bd2412 T 21:39, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Thank you!

Thanks! Although there are no happy reasons in particular for my decision, I believe there is a silver lining in all changes: they move us forward.

First of all, I'd like to apologize for going MIA at a rather inopportune moment in our hr wiki affair. I haven't been following the goings-on and I don't think I'll be returning to Meta any time soon, at least not in any major capacity. Still, I was pleased to see the recent exchange in Jimbo's talk. Good! Any interesting developments lately, apart from finishing the evidence-gathering process? GregorB (talk) 19:12, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks, sounds good to me... Please do contact me if you need help or maybe a piece of advice; while I'm obviously not in the mood for hard wikiwork lately, I'd definitely like to help towards this cause.

Did you by any chance contact SJ? He is a trustee at the WMF and seemed to have both interest and a very good grasp of the situation (still, at least in the edit I've just linked to, he seemed to be unaware of the content controversy itself). GregorB (talk) 20:13, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, I'll take a look and comment as necessary. GregorB (talk) 21:46, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've finally taken a fresh look at our Conduct and Evidence pages... While I have to say I was only moderately satisfied back then, overall it looks like a great job to me now given the magnitude of the task. I don't think there is anything of importance that could have been done differently. What I mean by this is that - if this entire initiative does not end in a satisfactory way - there is nothing to regret, really. I suppose this is out of our hands now. If I understand correctly, Meta people will analyze it, submit their opinions to Jimbo, and something will happen - or not. Still, I'm really looking forward to the resolution of this entire affair. GregorB (talk) 23:25, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I understand you completely. I was tempted too to go "straight to the source", but I felt a snowball in hell would have better chances. There is a full-blown siege mentality and paranoia there now that is virtually impossible to break. Still, (mis)trust put aside, there is a fundamental problem of values: if after all this, for example, Kubura is a model administrator that never did anything wrong... then I'm afraid for me that's the end of discussion right there. So, I have to say I'd advise against trying to broker a some sort of change or compromise: it will take a lot of time, effort and abuse, yet is extremely unlikely to accomplish anything. Having said that, I haven't seen your discussion with Abd so I'm going to talk a look and perhaps provide a comment or two. GregorB (talk) 14:56, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think I understand what Abd was trying to do (at least I hope so, haven't read it all yet). My very first comment on this issue was on Jimbo's talk page, where I attempted to give a high-level description of problems with hr wiki, the way I saw them back then. (And, while I understand things much better now, sadly I'd still say my original assessment was correct.) The trouble with this approach is that it's really hard to keep such descriptions factual without going into (a mountain of) details - and without hard facts, the other side will say it's a purely subjective assessment at best, or a fabrication at worst. So it's either evidence gathering, which is what we did, or "he said/she said", which does not help. Okay, I think I should read what Abd suggested before I continue... :) GregorB (talk) 12:15, 4 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

		The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
		For your initiative, resourcefulness, courage and hard work in defending encyclopedic principles and gathering facts regarding the Croatian Wikipedia controversy, I hereby award you the Defender of the Wiki Barnstar. GregorB (talk) 21:56, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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