Talk:Mad Mike Hoare

Date of birth

Multiple internet sources suggest he was born in 1919. --93.107.199.105 (talk) 20:27, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Name of mercenary

"One mercenary had died during the skirmish"

What was the name of this mercenary ?

Johan Fritz. I added a little about him. --Jpbrenna 04:09, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Nickname.

Wasn't he known as 'Mad Mike Hoare'? - (Aidan Work 04:55, 30 November 2005 (UTC))

Yes, he was.

Objectivity

This line added:

"Primarily, Mike Hoare and his men were motivated by money, but their willingness to engage in criminal and violent acts was another motivating factor. Later in his career as a killer for hire, Hoare would be condemned in court and vilified by a judge for the atrocities committed by himself and his followers."

Much of the article seems to glorify Hoare as a heroic leader figure, which most historians would contest since his exploits and activities were often brutal and for substantial profit. This line was added for balance. Hoare was, in fact, never considered a heroic leader by any measure and in any written work.

Boy, this facility is really cool. I didn't think I will find an article on him. I just learned of him from this bbc article [1] And yeah, I think Mad Mike should be redirected to this article as it looks like it was his nick name. Now, what happened to civilization? The article treats a mercenary like a hero WTF?

honestly, I must say that "brutal" describes a lot of people who have served in most militaries around the world. Primarily, if you believe Mr Hoare himself, he did what he did because he was anti communist, and felt it was the best way he could help the world, with his training he had (he served in WWII in the British Army for instance). I am sure he would take offense to it being said he did it for such a low reason as a willingness to engage in criminal activity and violence. if he just wanted those two things, there are any number of ways to do that without leaving his home in South Africa. As for being vilified by a judge, he definatly deserved that to be vilified, after all, he hijacked a plane (with the pilots consent) and had the plane fly to the location it was intending to go... reason for doing it? to get his troops out of the combat zone they were in... as for "never considered a heroic leader by any measure and in any written work." why make a movie about him then?

Harry G. Smith

Do a search of Guardian Karate School. Harry G. Smith was my Karate instructors teacher and member of the Wild Geese.

Some people NEED kill'n, and guys like Hoare and Smith are the ones to do it.

Peace.

POV

This article provides a number of useful facts. Still it is mainly a glorification of a mercenary. The passage mentioned above under "objectivity", and which contains some criticism of his conduct, has been removed from the article. --84.188.211.138 01:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

may I ask, if he was good at his job, "fought the good fight", etc, etc... what is the difference between mercenary and soldier? the fact that he fought for a country other than his own is a silly thing to base a view of someone on... George Washington would not qualify as a decent man then, neither would several other key players in history.

Although the US link to Diego Garcia is eminently plausible, I am not aware of any sources which back this up. Anyone know? If not, we should remove it. --Magicmike 02:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Other Careers

Is it true that Mad Mike Hoare was a qualified chartered accountant? Thanks in advance for any info. PeadarMaguidhir 07:26, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

yes, he was. and quiet a prolific writer to boot.

I haven't been able to find anything concrete to back this up (apart from a vague reference to the December 1980 Accountancy magazine disciplinary pages), but I recall hearing from an accountancy lecturer that Mad Mike was only thrown out of the ICAEW because he was in prison so couldn't pay his annual fees. In other words, they couldn't touch him for any of the "other stuff"! 86.140.171.105 08:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, I believe he may have been a member of the Irish Institute. Secondly, if convicted of a crime, he would automatically have been subject to an Institute investigation which would lead to expulsion.--PeadarMaguidhir 15:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Mike Webb

I really don't think that the radio personality Mike Webb is the same as the mercenary, and I removed the link.Grant McKenna 09:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Update

does anybody have any more recent information about him? Where he retired to, where is he now, etc?

Mike Hoare is dead now but I am trying to find a source from the press for the date. I knew someone who knew him so as a final resort we can visit his relatives. There is a lot missing from this article and I will include much detail but presently am separated from my books and articles Ghj-AA4 (talk) 06:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

He seems to be alive and most likely living in South Africa at the age of 91 where one of his children Chris seems to live. It is thought from postings on websites interested in mercenaries and so on that he has dementia and is otherwise in the physical condition you would expect at this age. Some sources suggest he was born in 1919 rather than 1920. Persistent chatter on the internet asserts he was killed in a robbery in the late 1980s or early 1990s in Zimbabwe and/or South Africa. This does not seem to be true--93.107.199.105 (talk) 20:24, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

"Some sources suggest he was born in 1919 rather than 1920." While allowing doubt about the year, they flatly assert the place to be Dublin, Ireland, rather than this article's India. See http://www.mercenary-wars.net/biography/mike-hoare.html for one. 173.184.68.224 (talk) 22:18, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Reuters dispatch claimed he died in Rhodesia circa 1990.His two daughters were first raped and shot,then his wife.No details given on his death.His son Chris was out of the country.Don't believe the robbery motive.Mike hosted the going away party for the U.S ambassador that fingered Mandela for his roadblock arrest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Statemachine 01 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I think the above might be describing the death, not of Hoare, but of Lt Col Dudley Coventry. He was a Rhodesian Army officer involved in some notable operations of the Bush War period. I remember reading his obituary in one of the republished collections put out by the Daily Telegraph. The date of death would be about right, and home invasion was mentioned as I recall (it might have been included in the book mentioned at this link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3650257/Paperbacks.html).

Additionslly, the front cover of this book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Congo-Unravelled-Operations-Independence-Mercenary/dp/1907677631, newly published in 2012, displays a review quote from Hoare. If he had died since then, I think a lot of mainstream media and internet sources would have reported it. 2A02:8010:6087:0:381A:988F:6000:3FB7 (talk) 17:54, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:57, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 18:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

contested statements removed

• Hoare agreed to fight for Mancham {{Fact|date=December 2006}}.
• When attempting the military deposition, Hoare and the others were disguised as a beer drinking fraternity, the "Ancient Order of Frothblowers", arriving in a Royal Swazi jet on Mahé, and carrying their own weapons; nine mercenaries (Hoare's advance guard) were already in the island on the evening of 25 November 1981. {{Fact|date=June 2007}}
• South Africa negotiated [Four of the mercenary soldiers' (convicted of treason)] release with a $3 million ransom payment. {{Fact|date=June 2007}}
• Throughout his trial Hoare insisted that his operation had been blessed by the South African government: I see South Africa as the bastion of civilisation in an Africa subjected to a total Communist onslaught... I foresee myself in the forefront of this fight for our very existence; he was released in 1985. {{Fact|date=June 2007}}

Please do not return this information to the artilce without a citation.--BirgitteSB 19:34, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Bias

This article is absurdly biased in favour of its subject. It does not even make clear that he was convicted of a major crime and received a substantial sentence. (Facts available in the source at the link in footnote number 4). Why is he described as having been involved in "military battles" in the Indian Ocean rather than "criminal activities"? 212.137.36.228 (talk) 08:51, 28 September 2011 (UTC)PaulN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.186.23.80 (talk) 23:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

The article makes it perfectly clear that he was found guilty and sentenced to prison - the ref you point out is used several times, specifically in the Seychelles affiar section, where it says "...this was upgraded to hijacking after international pressure." and "While still in prison..." - you don't go to prison if you're not found guilty.

It's called a military battle, because that's what it was. the legality of the scenario can be argued, but they were military in nature, and battles in nature. a_man_alone (talk) 09:53, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

How to pronounce the family name

Hoare as in "rhymes with whore"? I image him punching a lot of people in the face if that is not the right pronounciation ;-) Maybe someone with a little bit knowledge of Irish can help?

Yep. That's the correct pronunciation. 89.204.195.129 (talk) 21:33, 17 July 2012 (UTC) K Murphy

Should he be considerated as a DRC Army officer?

Since he was a commender of the ANC 5 Commando, should Mike Hoare be included in the Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo military personnel? On the other hand, it was only a figleaf to hide foreign intervention. --Jean Po (talk) 22:08, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 30 December 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: MOVED (non-admin closure) Galobtter (pingó mió) 04:52, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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Mike Hoare → Mad Mike Hoare – per WP:COMMONNAME. Overwhelmingly known in reliable sources as Mad Mike Hoare, "Mad" Mike Hoare or "Mad Mike" Hoare. See e.g. ~250 hits on gbooks or 24 hits on JSTOR BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:19, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

• Support per nom. He is indeed overwhelmingly known as Mad Mike Hoare. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:36, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

5 Commando Armée Nationale Congolaise

I undid the good faith edit by user talk:Quisqualis because we need to retain the red-link to 5 Commando to encourage editors to create such a page (see [Tasks - African Military History]. Because we already have a 5 Commando page on Wikipedia (Royal Marines) we need to add "ANC [Armée Nationale Congolaise] for disambiguation purposes. If ANC is ambiguous because of the South African political organisation, we can use any other unique and appropriate suffix. Recommendations are welcome. Farawayman (talk) 12:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)