Talk:Jats

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 June 2024

"Jats are descendants of Ham" as referenced in https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:HMElliotHistVol1.djvu/138#cite_note-1 Sachidananda Hullahalli (talk) 11:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. You'll need a more reliable source than what you've cited, particularly as Ham is generally not considered a historical figure. – macaddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 14:51, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

== Sindhi Zutts are not the same as Punjabi Jatts = Theory Debunked They are the SAME

Their is one big mistake with it. I am from sindh Karachi. Their are no Local sindhi Jatts all the Jatts in sindh are either from Pakistani Punjab Province or indian punjab that came here after partition. The Zutt which was mentioned by caliphate are a local Sindhi clan who still exists but are camel herders. I think their is a confusion here because of the same sound. Yaqub50 (talk) 13:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Zutt is an arabic / persian word for the ethnicity jatt 2001:8003:471E:D100:1928:6BEA:EB44:8DD3 (talk) 15:56, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

"Zutt" is indeed the Arabic word for Jatt, but it's not accurate. It's like the word "Firanj/Farang" (Frank) being used to describe Crusaders, even though all Crusaders were obviously not Franks. Even on the Zutt page itself, it mentions how Arabs included groups like Andaghars, Sayabijas, Qufs, and Jadgals. It's a confederation at best.

Otherwise, at least make a distinction between the high Iran_N Sindhi Jatts, and the high Steppe Jatts (of Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Western Uttar-Pradesh). They are genetically and culturally distinct. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:11, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

and those jatts forefathers which were/are , in indian / pakistani punjab who have came after pation , migrated from the broader balochistan and sindh region in the medeval to Punjab in an attempt to find sufficient agriculture fertility 2001:8003:471E:D100:1928:6BEA:EB44:8DD3 (talk) 16:01, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Wrong. Jatts do not originate from Sindh, contrary to what this article claims. If they did, then all Jatts would have the characteristically high Iran_N genetic component found in Sindhis (instead of the unusually high Steppe, especially among Haryanvis). There is also archeological evidence of Jatt figures like Shalinder. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

You are correct. Even if we ignore that Zutt was a generic term for Indus pastoralists, we cannot ignore that Sindhi Jatts (Sammats, Lohanas, Jamotes) and Punjabi Jatts are culturally and genetically distinct. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:16, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Add this as highlight

Khan, Zahoor Ali (1997). "ZAMINDARI CASTE CONFIGURATION IN THE PUNJAB, c.1595 — MAPPING THE DATA IN THE". Proceedings of the Indian History Congress. 58: 336. ISSN 2249-1937. JSTOR 44143925. They appear to be in two blocks, divided by a sparse zone between the Sutlej and the Sarasvati basin. The two blocks, in fact, represent two different segments of the Jats, the western one (Panjab) known as Jat (with short vowel) and the other (Haryanvi) as Jaat (with long vowel). 119.42.57.164 (talk) 18:15, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Sidhu is not a Jaat caste anymore

Someone cleverely used The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland this book to play with words and references. But now I have removed it. So, remove this caste from here. HistorianV (talk) 17:46, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2024

I want to add Dhankhar in as one of jat clans, as Dhankhar is also a jat clan. 0710Tejas (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable and verifiable source for the claim; read WP:RS, WP:V. Ekdalian (talk) 18:10, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

A Sacatled part in the leading peragraph is explicitly spreading wrong information about the present circumstances prior to Jats status in Bhramanical society, especially their miscount th in Bhramanical Society of fourfold system is terabily wrong while the Bulk majority of jats mainly constiture in relgious Institute such as Sikh and Islam faith which is the well known fact despite such falshood nerration the remaining Jats dosent follow the Mainstream Hinduism religion and suppose to vana kept outside the fourfold society of varna sytem so they don't comprised any integral unit in Shudra Or Vaishyacaste based distinguishion 117.206.212.10 (talk) 07:11, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 10:12, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Sindh as the proposed homeland of Jatts

Jatts do not originate from Sindh, contrary to what this article claims. The main proponent of this theory, Irfan Habib, has since retracted his supported on account of the archeological discovery of the Kanswa Inscription, which mentions the 5th century "Jit" ruler (Raja Shalinder) in Sialkot, before the proposed Zutt migrations of 11th-16th centuries.

Moreover, if the Jatts did originate in Sindh, then most Jatts would have some evidence of the characteristically high Iran_N genetic component found in Sindhis (instead of the unusually high Steppe, especially in Haryanvis). Besides Pahari Jatts (who probably mixed with Gujjar-like people), this does not hold true (from Majha Punjab to Western Uttar-Pradesh).

Another important point is that "Zutt" is likely a generic term for Indus pastoralists (and in the article itself, it mentions how Arabs sometimes included seemingly separate groups like Andaghars, Sayabijas, Qufs, Jadgals, al-Qayqaniyya, and others... and sometimes they did not). "Zutt" is most likely similar to the term "Firanj/Farang" (Frank).

Ultimately, this theory is outdated and this article needs to be revised. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 03:52, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

On Muslim Jatts

If we are going to stick to the theory that Zutt = Jatt, then the Muslim Jatt section needs to be flushed out more.

I recommend adding figures like Abu al-Khasib Marzuq (Abbasid-General and Conqueror of Tabaristan), Al-Sari ibn Al-Hakam (Governor of Egypt), Abu al-Faraj Muhammad (Buyid-Minister of Baghdad), and Abu Hatim al-Zutti (Qarmatian Preacher and Founder of the Baqliyya sect). Also include the Zutt contributions in the Conquest of Iran and Sindh, and the later Zutt Rebellion in Iraq. That's the least that can be added in terms of Zutti contributions.

You should also add non-Zutt figures like Saadullah Khan (Thahim Jatt, Grand Vizier of the Mughals, forefather of Nawab Mutawassil Khan and Nizam Muzaffar Jang Hidayat), and Ali Muhammad Khan (Nain Jatt, founder of the Rohilla dynasty which ruled the Kingdom of Rohilkhand and the Princely State of Rampur).

There are other figures that I've not mentioned, but the above would be a good start. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 04:10, 31 August 2024 (UTC)