Talk:Abe Vigoda

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A news item involving Abe Vigoda was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 27 January 2016.

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

January 24 to 30, 2016 (16th)

Alive

I've just reverted an anon IP who wrote that Abe Vigoda died today. Not so, at least according to the Orlando Sentinel today. [1] --Tenebrae (talk) 21:28, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dead

ABC and other major media are reporting that Vigoda has now died, for real. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 19:55, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's known, thank you. Mlpearc (open channel) 20:52, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Just making a list as I'm going through sources of odds and ends that don't have a home yet but should find one eventually.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He played Gus Molino in [[Gus Van Sant]]'s 1994 film ''[[Sugar Hill]]'', described by [[Roger Ebert]] as the "ancient Mafia boss who controls the drugs".<ref>{{cite book|last=Ebert|first=Roger|title=Roger Ebert's Four-Star Reviews 1967-2007|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=LNBX1H4C98QC&pg=PA738|year=2007|publisher=Andrews McMeel|location=Kansas City, MO|isbn=978-0-7407-7179-8|page=738}}</ref>
His brother Bill Vigoda is an artist.<ref>{{cite book|last=Eury|first=Michael |title=The Krypton Companion|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=Fcm4JrX-F54C&pg=PA40|year=2006|publisher=TwoMorrows Publishing|location=Raleigh, NC|isbn=978-1-893905-61-0|page=40}}</ref>
He played [[Caliban]] in a 1962 staging of [[William Shakespeare|Shakespeare's]] ''[[The Tempest]]''.<ref>{{cite journal|author=Weekly World News|title=Weekly World News|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=T-4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA13|date=June 29, 1993|publisher=Weekly World News|pages=13|issn=0199574X}}}}</ref><ref>{{cite book|last1=Jones|first1=James Earl|last2=Niven|first2=Penelope|title=Voices and Silences: With a New Epilogue|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=0eNP3HFLqfQC&pg=PA135|year=1993|publisher=Hal Leonard Corporation|location=Pompton Plains, NJ|isbn=978-0-87910-969-1|page=135}}</ref>

Descent

If he pronounced his name as /vᵻˈɡoʊdə/, like pl:wygoda, not /ˈvᵻɡodə/, maybe his parents were actually Polish Jews? The boundaries of Russia didn't used to be what they're now. What do the sources say about their towns of birth? 195.187.108.4 (talk) 14:44, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

survived by

@American In Brazil: survived by is a present tense phrase, Vigoda's family is still living, therefore Vigoda's family has survived past, longer than Abe. Saying otherwise is a BLP violation to the surviving family. Mlpearc (open channel) 19:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please see en.wiktionary.org/wiki/be_survived_by Mlpearc (open channel) 19:18, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I recognize your edit to be in good faith but, sorry, you're wrong on this one. The article is not about the family, it is about Abe Vigoda. Once a person dies, references must be in the past tense. Obituaries are written at approximately the time of death and use the present tense to describe the survivors, but a WP article is encyclopedic and must use the past. The subject of the sentence is the personal pronoun 'He', referring to Abe Vigoda and the object is the family (object of the preposition 'by'). Therefore the past tense is correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biographies#Tense

WP:MOS - "Biographies of living persons should generally be written in the present tense, and biographies of deceased persons in the past tense. When making the change upon the death of a subject, the entire article should be reviewed for consistency. If a person is living but has retired, use "is a former" or "is a retired" rather than the past tense "was".

Correct – John Smith (1946–2003) was a baseball pitcher ... Correct – John Smith (born 1946) is a former baseball pitcher ... Incorrect – John Smith (born 1946) was a baseball pitcher ... Historical events should be written in the past tense in all biographies(.)" [emphasis added]

Please conform your edits to WP:MOS.

American In Brazil (talk) 19:26, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with your interpataion of Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biographies#Tense. Mlpearc (open channel) 19:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The family 'is' but Abe 'was'. This is no longer the biography of a living person (unless you know something the rest of us don't). The article is a biography of a deceased person. This sentence from WP:MOS is not subject to interpretation: Historical events should be written in the past tense in all biographies(.) American In Brazil (talk) 19:43, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This leaves no mis-interpretation en.wiktionary.org/wiki/be_survived_by Mlpearc (open channel) 19:49, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your cite is from Wiktionary, not WP:MOS. As I stated above, the present tense is correct in obituaries which are written at the approximate time of death, but not in an historical biography of a deceased person, which is what a WP article on Abe Vigoda now is. American In Brazil (talk) 19:59, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Dispute_resolution_noticeboard Mlpearc (open channel) 20:18, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please come to Brazil and join the English language class I teach to Portuguese speakers. Now it is time for me to turn my attention to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which explains why time only moves forward. American In Brazil (talk) 20:52, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Vigoda is dead, but his family members-in-question, are collectively still living. Therefore, Vigoda is survived by his family. GoodDay (talk) 20:54, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

He 'is' at the time of death, but historically he 'was'. American In Brazil (talk) 20:58, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We shall have to agree to disagree. His family hasn't been wiped out, since his death. Therefore, he is survived by them. GoodDay (talk) 21:01, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, "he's dead and there ain't nothin' gonna bring him back." (quote from "The Godfather") I have referenced WP:MOS on the Dispute Resolution Notice Board. As I stated above, the subject of the sentence is Abe - and this time he's really dead. American In Brazil (talk) 21:09, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Stick with time :P Mlpearc (open channel) 21:35, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"I am human, and I do make mistakes." --Mlpearc: User Talk Page. And also to GoodDay - I know this is a good faith edit and I appreciate your efforts to improve WP. It is a common error to confuse the subject of a sentence with the object. (I once had a student in the English class that I teach to Brazilians say, "Him saw I.") The common English usage in an obituary is to use the present tense because the subject has recently died. But in a biography of a deceased person, which is what this WP article now is, proper usage is the past tense, in accordance with WP:MOS - Historical events should be written in the past tense in all biographies(.) -American In Brazil (talk) 21:39, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend you both take this case to the MOS page-in-question & see what the response is there. GoodDay (talk) 21:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@GoodDay: Been there, done that Mlpearc (open channel) 21:49, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The quote above in italics is from MOS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biographies#Tense MOS should be the final arbiter. -American In Brazil (talk) 21:51, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing there, which covers this situation. GoodDay (talk) 21:56, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there is. Mr. Vigoda's death is an historical event. And this time he really died. American In Brazil (talk) 22:01, 5 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Does this work for everybody? Or anybody? InedibleHulk (talk) 09:09, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe a RfC is needed, we don't need "Will this work ?" We need to figure out the correct way to phrase this. Mlpearc (open channel) 16:16, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We've already figured out both sides think their way is correct. An RfC will just (slowly) determine which side is bigger. I like my way, because it (quickly) kills the whole issue. Mention what family he had/has/will have had, and by not mentioning their deaths, I don't see how anyone but the fringest minoritity could reasonably assume they didn't/don't survive him. Readers get the same info, and no editor has to lose the argument. If you do decide to call an RfC, this counts as my "vote". InedibleHulk (talk) 17:06, 9 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Website

How can this not be Abe Vigoda's real website? http://www.abevigoda.com/ --70.162.223.119 (talk) 07:11, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How can it be his? Would he or his family actually pay for something like that? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:16, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Vigoda's funeral was held...

Is this even notable ? I can see "interned at", "Resting place" and "He died on (date)" but, this just seems trivial and not needed. Mlpearc (open channel) 19:31, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hispanic or Sephardic

In an anonymous edit by User:67.214.0.209 the page was edited to add unsourced claims of Vigoda being "Hispanic" and "Sephardic", seemingly in conflict with his known Russian Jewish ancestry. Someone else removed "Hispanic" and I removed "Sephardic" as neither claim has sources or appear to be true. If adding these back, please cite a source. -- Jlick (talk) 01:24, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why is "Joe Vs. the Volcano" not listed? He was in it. 2607:FB91:889:584D:E8B7:1D36:5207:FBFD (talk) 20:49, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Missing Movie: Joe Versus the Volcano

Missing his role as the island chief in 1990 movie "Joe Versus the Volcano" See the Wikipedia article on Joe Versus the Volcano 2600:1010:B15A:FEC0:C039:90:B078:5B84 (talk) 04:08, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]