Talk:Hair (musical)

Casting tables

Casting tables are not very helpful and encourage fancruft. Only the original Broadway cast (and in cases like this, or Little Shop, where the Off-Broadway production was particularly significant, the Off-Broadway cast) should be separately broken out in a list or table. Other important cast members are listed in the narrative production sections. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:47, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree. Flami72 (talk) 19:15, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

The thing I "fixed" on the casting table was just the way the way the headings were designed. It looked a little messy. Just cleaned them up and made them simple. Other casting tables look similar to this. For example, Back to The Future has a similar table design. I'm sorry I was not clear in the original reverted edit. Smitty1999 (talk) 13:56, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I do not think your changes to the casting tables in numerous articles have been an improvement. They make the tables even more boated. So, no, you are not "fixing" anything. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:36, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers ok, fair, but I do not see anything wrong with the way I re-formated them. If you don't wanna call it "fixing," then just call it re-formatting. There's nothing wrong with that. I just thought it looked neater in that format. Smitty1999 (talk) 14:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers is there a way we can find some common ground on this? Smitty1999 (talk) 14:52, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

You should have opened a discussion at WP:MUSICALS to see if others preferred the older style, without the extra boxes for dates, and your longer style of column headings before launching into a project to make these changes to numerous articles. I told you that I objected to your changes in numerous edit summaries when you started doing this. If you opened a talk page discussion at WP:MUSICALS, you would have known if others agreed or disagreed with you. I would prefer that all the noteworthy info about casting (other than the cast of the first major production) should be entirely in the Productions sections. Therefore, I see anything that makes the tables bigger and longer is bad, and anything that makes them more concise or eliminates redundant info is good. Others may disagree, but you will never know unless you open a discussion at WP:MUSICALS. By the way, you don't need to keep pinging me. I am watching this page. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for that information. I will start a discussion on WP:MUSICALS. Smitty1999 (talk) 20:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

OK, thanks. -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Productions

2011 was part of the 2009 production and is already efficiently described at the end of that section. The 2007/2008 Shakespeare in the Park concerts were part of the 40th anniversary celebration, and I do not believe that they were especially noteworthy, considering the hundreds of professional productions of this musical. This article is long enough without listing every production; we need to exercise editorial judgment to decide what is the most important information to include in our articles. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:56, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

I now agree!!Flami72 (talk) 19:15, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

First non-Shakespeare production

The claim that Hair was Papp's 'first non-Shakespeare production' can't be correct. There was a presentation of Electra in August, 1964 in the Delacorte theater, by the New York Shakespeare festival (per New York Times article). It is identified by the Times writer as 'the first time the festival has departed from Shakespeare'. The 1964 Electra is already incuded in List of Shakespeare in the Park productions at the Delacorte Theater. EdJohnston (talk) 02:11, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:35, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

GA concerns

I am concerned that this article no longer meets the good article criteria because of its length. At 13,000 words, WP:TOOBIG recommends that the article be split or reduced. I think there is prose that can be removed, such as longer block quotes. Also, there is an orange banner about the term "Notable people" that should be resolved. Is anyone willing to address these concerns, or should this go to WP:GAR? Z1720 (talk) 01:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Can you make some more specific suggestion as to what you think ought to be done? Given the show's extensive history, I don't think the length itself is a real problem. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ssilvers: More specific suggestions below:

• The orange banner for "Notable people" needs to be resolved.

• Done. I removed a production from this table and added a hidden comment that contains the table criteria. It should be the same for all musicals that have a similar cast table: The Heading should just say "Casts" (or similar), and the table should list only the principal casts of the long-running major market productions and original production(s). So, once the show plays on B'way or the West End, the table should include only further B'way, WE or US/UK national tours, unless there is another major production that ran for years. This is pretty standard throughout the musical theatre articles on WP (though there are some that have accumulated lesser productions that should be taken out of the table). -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

• The block quote used in the themes is too long, as there are copyright concerns when large amounts of information like this are copied. This should be summarised or removed.

• Agreed. I have cut it down to its essential points. What is left, I believe is essential and represents only a tiny portion of the work quoted, an acceptable fair use. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

• The receptions for subsequent productions of "Hair" should be removed: if these are notable, the remounted version should get its own article or the critical reviews moved to "Reception". This will reduce the number of words in the article.

• I disagree, at least in part: various subsequent productions of this musical have been quite WP:noteworthy, but they are already presented in very summary form, and I don't see any benefit in creating separate articles for them. If you think any of these reaction sections are particularly overlong (or for less noteworthy productions) and that the quotes are of lesser encyclopedic value, let me know, and I'll try to reduce their length. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

• " two songs that were cut from the original production." Has a citation needed tag which needs to be resolved.

• Agreed and resolved. I also shortened this paragraph considerably. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

• The last block quote in the article should also be summarised and removed, due to the same reasons as above.

• I reduced this quote, and I believe it now complies with fair use. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

This was after a quick skim. I suggest that interested editors read through the entire article and remove unnecessary prose (especially quotes) and ensure that all concerns are resolved. Z1720 (talk) 02:04, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll try to look at this tomorrow. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:12, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for these comments. I have addressed your points above and did some additional work to tighten up the discussion. Please let me know if you see other areas that seem over-long or less encyclopedically necessary to the subject, and I'll review and try to tighten up the article further. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)